Raffie's Majesty

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:28 pm

What a great breed to race stallion New York has.

From my stallion register (Oct 26) his lifetime stats are 77% rnrs/foals, 77% wnrs/rnrs, 11% sw's/rnrs, 16% sh's/rnrs, over $73,000 per runner. He's improving his mares by a good margin as well 1.70 aei 1.13 ci.

It just strikes me how you hear so much noise to bring German bloodlines to the US and yet we have this horse who is out of a Surumu mare go pretty unnoticed.

From his photo he looks very well put together and the majority of his earnings are coming on the dirt.

Anyone seen him and his foals? Would love to know opinions about his physical. Also, his height isn't listed in the register print edition, anyone have it?

pokeyman · Postby **pokeyman** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:38 pm

I agree. One of my mare's is booked to him already for this spring. She is a dirt speed mare so should be a good cross as he was a plodder. Also, she is an outcross, like him, so I am hoping for a filly. Of course, I am always hoping for a filly! *wink*

Almost all of his earnings are from NY restricted races so if you race in NY he is a good value.

We race in NY and the smaller less competitive tracks (Suffolk, Philly, Turfway park, Monmouth) and I think he will be ok for that level. He is a Regional stallion and that is fine.

He is acceptable conformationally (nothing glaring- maybe a bit over at the knee) and is 16.3hh.

He is NOT a commercial stallion, as you know.

Dave C · Postby **Dave C** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:33 pm

I think you used the right term in referring to statements about German breeding: NOISE. People might talk about how we sure could use some of that breeding in NA, but it is always for someone else to put up the money and take the risk to prove the stallion.

bcassidy · Postby **bcassidy** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:49 pm

Raffie's Majesty is owned by a neighbor of mine (in NJ) who stands the stallion in NY. He is an excellent example of what can happen when you race in a state bred program. Most-- if not all of his foals race in a lucrative state bred program. The owner supports the stallion with many of his own mares and he doesn't have to go to outside stallions with expensive stud fees to get very good runners in a regional program like NY.
There is definitely more than one way to skin a cat and Raffies Majesty is yet another example of how it can be done a different way. He is an excellent breed to race stallion in a regional program that gives you a much better chance to make money in this game than breeding to stallions in Kentucky.
I hope more breeders take notice of him because he is an excellent choice of a very good regional stallion.

pokeyman · Postby **pokeyman** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:38 pm

bcassidy wrote:Raffie's Majesty is owned by a neighbor of mine (in NJ) who stands the stallion in NY. He is an excellent example of what can happen when you race in a state bred program. Most-- if not all of his foals race in a lucrative state bred program. The owner supports the stallion with many of his own mares and he doesn't have to go to outside stallions with expensive stud fees to get very good runners in a regional program like NY.
There is definitely more than one way to skin a cat and Raffies Majesty is yet another example of how it can be done a different way. He is an excellent breed to race stallion in a regional program that gives you a much better chance to make money in this game than breeding to stallions in Kentucky.
I hope more breeders take notice of him because he is an excellent choice of a very good regional stallion.

I agree with everything said above. Would like to add that you get a stallion with this proven sire ability with a listed stud fee of $3,000. Good value for those that breed to race and prefer proven stallions at competitive prices.

On another note, can anyone get a LFSN season to Outflanker for a good price? If so, please PM me. Thanks.....

Dave C · Postby **Dave C** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:27 am

The question is: would he just be a good regional stallion if he was getting a higher quality of mare in Ky? I'm not trying to disparage the mares he's getting, but a CI of 1.13 does not seem very high even for NY.

bcassidy · Postby **bcassidy** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:44 am

Dave C.----I think that is the point. He is doing great with a very modest book of mares. He improves his mares substantially and his runners average 73k per racing animal. Very nice---so why would he need to see better mares in Ky? He would be absolutely lost in Ky and he could be king of the hill in NY! He offers the regional breeder many things that the stallions in Ky can't match. If some lucky breeders owned a share in him they would have hit a very nice trifecta.

Dave C · Postby **Dave C** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:35 pm

My point isn't that he needs better mares in Ky, just that perhaps if he was getting them he may improve them as much as the regional mares he's getting in NY. Perhaps it is a matter of symantics, but usually when someone describes a stallion as a 'regional' sire, they are suggesting that he really isn't all that good. My point with RM is that he may be a good sire, not just a good 'regional' sire.

As for your neighbors model for making money with him, I think that is really the traditional model for TB stallions. The commercial model of using stallions to make money by selling stud fees is a relatively recent innovation (past 50 years). I think the commercial stallion market is likely to shrink over the next 10 years and you will find a lot more farms using the traditional model - focused on using a stallion to breed good horses rather than selling stud fees.

bcassidy · Postby **bcassidy** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:54 pm

You are correct---it is a symantics point---when I use the phrase regional stallion I am not implying that they are of less quality than a Ky stallion but rather that they are uniquely qualified for regional racing programs. I think breed to race breeders can do much better breeding to local stallions when the resulting foals will race in state bred programs. Raffie's Majesty is an excellent example of how that can be the case.
It is probably also true that if Raffie's Majesty where going to compete on the open level he would have to see better mares. The open market is much more competetive precisely because the better mares are bred for commercial purposes. I know of very few graded stakes winning mares that are bred in regional programs---- especially grade I or grade II winning mares. They are usually always bred for the open conditions which yields the highest sales price for yearlings and such.

oliverstoned · Postby **oliverstoned** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:25 pm

I know where Dave C is coming from. I think Raffies Majesty would outperform most 50K stallions if he got their book of mares. "In these troubled times" some smart breed to race people should save 30-150k for one year and give guys like RM a shot. I think they would be happily suprised.

Joltman · Postby **Joltman** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:36 pm

You have to like the AEI vs Comp Index. But on the other hand -

- he's had only 1 graded stakes placed runner from what I see and no graded winners. State bred purses can inflate runners earnings disproportionally. The real stakes horses can go beyond local company and be competitive with the big boys.

- his pedigree is somewhat obscure and while Cormorant is woefully underappreciated there isn't much on the dam side either.

I can root for him, but not necessarily breed to him at this point.

jm

Dave C · Postby **Dave C** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:59 pm

The AEI vs CI indicates that the mares he was being bred to couldn't through even restricted stakes winners when they were bred to other stallions. Which gets back to my point that if he was being bred to mares that have produced GSW's would he bring them down or step them up? I would not call the bottom side of his pedigree obscure, uncommon in NA, but very well regarded in Europe.

Joltman · Postby **Joltman** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:21 am

Certainly it would seem that RM is improving mares. My guess is that the improvement comes from Cormorant, who got no respect but got a couple of standout runners. The pedigree of RM shows no graded/group winners in the first 3 generations even in Europe, and most of the dam's and grand dam's progeny were bred to US loser level stallions with nominal success.

In the case of state bred earnings, you'll see a lot of 'great' Pa stallions in the next year or two, due to the availability of some big Pa purses for state sired/bred horses. But like the filly in NM, they probably cannot not compete in open company in the majors. Then again, if one defines success in purely financial terms, then the state earnings are just fine thank you.

jm

bcassidy · Postby **bcassidy** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:55 am

Joltman----I think it is going to be interesting to see what happens and I think a lot of people may be guessing the wrong way on PA breds. Even though the money will be there for PA breds---- I think the breeders association will pay out less than previous years because it will be more difficult for a PA bred to place in the open races with higher purses. The higher purses attract better horses from out of state and might make it more difficult for a PA bred to be competitive. Just a thought......

erins isle · Postby **erins isle** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:39 am

[quote="Joltman"]

- his pedigree is somewhat obscure and while Cormorant is woefully underappreciated there isn't much on the dam side either.

I can root for him, but not necessarily breed to him at this point.

jm[/quote]

I agree with Dave C, the damline isn't obscure, just not known by you Americans. It is not highclass I must admit, but it can be much worse.
Dam Raffinierte didn't race in Germany, but granddam Raffinesse won four times, won as a 2yo and was placed third in ''der Preis der Winterkonigin'' which is one of the most prestigious races in Germany. I do hope Raffie will have a lot of success.