King Cugat

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:09 pm

what are your thoughts on him as a breed to race sire?

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:27 pm

I'm not sure he's Stateside anymore. I believe he's in New Zealand for good. With that said, he was average at best even with good Lane's End support.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:49 pm

ASB wrote:I'm not sure he's Stateside anymore. I believe he's in New Zealand for good. With that said, he was average at best even with good Lane's End support.

nope he's at crystal's farm and I'm tossing around the idea of buying a mare to bred to himn

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:27 pm

There's better options out there if you're breeding to race, especially if this is your first mare, but to each their own.

If you really like him check to see if they'll partner a mare with you, since you don't have any ownership experience. Its better to ease your way in and get some footing.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:33 pm

ASB wrote:There's better options out there if you're breeding to race, especially if this is your first mare, but to each their own.
.

care to explain?

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:50 pm

Broodmares are money pits and if you're breeding to race you need to take out as many variables from the equation as you can.

Besides stud fee and board, you have vet fees, ferrier, etc. Once the foal is on the ground you now have two months to feed for at least 3 years before you start recouping any costs, which now include breaking and training.

So, you're going to want to breed to a stallion that not only gets a majority of his foals to the track, but also has an extremely high percentage of quality winners.

You might also want to compare and contrast if breeding in a regional program is better for you than a Kentucky foal. Often times it is for breed to race folks. So its all about finding the one with the most upside for you.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:53 pm

y ou are giving me broodmare 101. I didn't ask you for that. I asked you what you thought of king cugat as a breed to race sire.

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:12 pm

And I gave you my opinion on him in multiple posts.

I'm not going to slander a forumite's stallion but if you read my last post about all the costs involved in keeping a mare and getting a foal to the races and he still tops your list after doing research, then by all means. Its your dime.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:29 pm

in 5 posts you have said one sentence about king cauget. one sentence of no substance. you spent another 2 paragraphs "teaching me" about broodmares andthe "right way to go about doing something" like I haven't already thought or planned about it. That's very rude of you. You know nothing of my situtation, what deal i have worked out, what type of discount I am getting .

I happen to like, actually love, his pedigree. sure he hasn't had a big name yet here, but I can get a damn good deal on his stud fee, which is already pretty cheap.

So I would apprciate it, if you are going to offer your "advice", do so about the stallion.

I don't apprciate your uppity attidude

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 8:41 pm

TomFool · Postby **TomFool** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:56 am

I have always liked this horse & I have been suprised he has not done better than he has as a sire. He was a hellva turf runner only being out of the money once and that was a very rough trip in the BC Mile I believe. You cant find any better turf pedigree in the book than his. His 3/4 bro Western Expression has done ok at stud in NY & is a really good first time turf sire to play in those state bred races which often times you still get good odds. In searching for possiable mares that I think would fit him I would stick with more of the same in distance turf minded types maybe a Sadlers Wells line mare or some more Nureyev.

Fireslam · Postby **Fireslam** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:02 am

The question is: what are your thoughts on him as a breed to race sire?

ASB answers:
he was average at best even with good Lane's End support.
There's better options out there if you're breeding to race.
So, you're going to want to breed to a stallion that not only gets a majority of his foals to the track, but also has an extremely high percentage of quality winners.

You come back with:

I don't apprciate your uppity attidude.
I happen to like, actually love, his pedigree. sure he hasn't had a big name yet here, but I can get a damn good deal on his stud fee, which is already pretty cheap.

You obviously plan on breeding to him no matter what anyone says, so just do it. If someone gives you their opinion about a horse, which you ASKED FOR, and you dont like it, why did you ask in the first place? Its your money and your mare, so knock yourself out. In the final analysis, it doesnt matter what anyone else thinks, unless they are paying your bills. If your just waiting for someone to post exactly what you want to hear, then say so.

HR LLC · Postby **HR LLC** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:03 am

Cant we all get along in 2009....

I wouldnt breed to King Cugat with any mare. His offspring have been slow plodding type...depending upon the pedigree of your mare there are better breed to race options than King Cugat, despite his low stud fee.

pokeyman · Postby **pokeyman** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:31 am

I agree.

Here are some stats...King Cugat is from the exact same female family and sire line (Mr. Prospector) as Western Expression. Here is what he has done as a Regional sire. Western Expression has 5 crops to race; only 40% winners; only 1% stakes winners and does not improve his mares.

However, if you like King Cugat (who I believe has similar numbers) and have a good gut feeling about him or have a mare with really neat linebreding than go for it.

You asked about breed to race sires and I would not put either stallion mentioned at the top of that list but that's just me.....But, if you find the "right" mare than who knows!

On another note, let's all make 2009 a year where we try to be courteous and respectfully agree to disagree on issues! Happy New Year!!

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:59 am

i watch alot of austalian racing at night, and there are king cagat's everhwehre. in stakes races, and htey can freaking run. why he never hit here I have no idea, but he can get you a good turf horse.

Fireslam, ASB provided no substance whatsoever. I asked her to explain her thoughts about the sire, she didn't. as you can see, other posters went into more detail about the sire which I apprciate.