Pedigree Query

Does anyone have a list of stallions with large hearts that are at stud?

Thanks

No list but here is something I read that might point in a potential direction.

Speaking of the stallion Kitalpha Jack Werk wrote: What Kitalpha does have is a big heart, and I don’t mean in the figurative sense!

Dr. Fred Fregin is an equine cardiologist who has been measuring equine hearts for 40 years. Much of his work and the inheritance of large hearts has been documented by Marianna Haun, author of the book “The X Factor.” According to Dr. Fregin, Kitalpha has one of the largest hearts he’s ever measured, in the same league as Secretariat’s.

Haun reportedly called writer Steve Haskin a few weeks before the 2008 Kentucky Derby to talk about Big Brown, who’s also out of a Nureyev mare, to say that Big Brown would get the Derby distance because of the big heart he had inherited from Nureyev.

Here’s what Haskin wrote about what Haun told him: “When we measured Miesque’s son, Kitalpha, we found the largest heart Dr. Fregin has seen in more than 40 years of measuring. It was the same size as Secretariat’s. Kitalpha bears a very close resemblance to his dam, Nureyev, and to Big Brown. So we know that the extraordinary heart of Nureyev is beating in Big Brown.”[/i]

Biggest heart but crookedest legs? baddest attitude? Gotta be a reason why he didn't race.

Personally this large heart stuff is a crock, a real crock!

In humans, a large heart is a birth defect.

In my Much Younger days, my older sister was engaged to the love of her life, a fellow she met while in college. The year they were to be married, he died in his sleep at a friend's house after a party. He was 25.

He was autopsied, and he was found to have a heart nearly twice the size of a normal heart, and he died of heart failure.

I am reminded of the science of water pressure. The larger the diameter pipe, the more pressure, exponentially, needed to move water through it. In plumbing, the presence of ONE piece of larger pipe within a pressurized system will reduce the pressure to a thin stream. Therefore, I suppose a large heart could be responsible for LOW blood pressure, and provided the heart is very strong that might be an advantage?

What Haun et all are talking about is a larger than usual normal heart. Not a disease or birth defect enlarged heart. One is good, the other not so much.

[quote]Here’s what Haskin wrote about what Haun told him: “When we measured Miesque’s son, Kitalpha, we found the largest heart Dr. Fregin has seen in more than 40 years of measuring. It was the same size as Secretariat’s. Kitalpha bears a very close resemblance to his dam, Nureyev, and to Big Brown. So we know that the extraordinary heart of Nureyev is beating in Big Brown.”[/i][/quote]

Kitalpha may look like Miesque. However she doesn't look a whole lot like Nureyev, or Kingmambo for that matter.

Kingmambo, Nureyev and Big Brown look like Forli. Moderate length neck, that tapers nicely into a long sloping wither.

Miesque resembles either Prove Out, or Sanctus. Longer neck, sharper withers, higher neck set.

Re Kitalpha, no one seems to know why he didn't race. Or at least no one seems to be willing to talk about why he didn't race.

I believe there are more than one reason for large hearts:

[1] circulation is bad and/or restricted and the heart has to labor to circulate the blood and that labor builds up the size of the muscle trying to push the blood through the body [bad]

[2] An athlete that does arobic excerize over a long period will develop an larger than normal athletic heart [good]

[3] I suspect a genitic large heart could be good or bad depending on the life style of the individual.

griff

Large heart usually means thin walls and not much benefit. Secretariat was a freak- in a very positive sense. His heart was larger, but normal in every sense.

Unless one, the breeder, does an ultrasound while the stallion is alive it is very hard to know if your stallion carries the gene or has a large heart. It is passed on the female line to both colts and fillies but to fillies only on the male side. This is why Secretariat only had great daughters. And then if you look at Seabiscuit, War Admiral, even Pharlap. I would have LOVE to see the race between War Admiral and Seabiscuit live in person. Had anyone known both had the large hearts it would have been more of a spectical.

Anyway point being that the stallion owners would have to check for it. Most get a necropsy done when they die and this is how they find out. Now I see some post about the largest heart but I have read that the largest done in a study was Key To The Mint.

I have two stallions standing with him, Key To the Mint, 2 and 3 generations back. Anyway this is the best article I have yet found and the most informative. Your best bet is to do your homework and learn pedigree's as most breeders just may not know if their stud carries the heart or the heart gene. They may never have raced due to injury so never proved anything.

Again a lot of pedigree search. I became fascinated years ago and rolled in it all learning who carried what. It is very interesting.

http://horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm

For me, this theory is like plenty others in racehorse breeding, looking for a magic formula that doesn't exist. The idea that the gene(s) for having a large heart that functions to enable it's owner to be an elite athlete are on one chromosome is utterly ludicrous. If it is so obvious, why aren't the people that "discovered" this theory having champions year upon year.

Tonno100 wrote:For me, this theory is like plenty others in racehorse breeding, looking for a magic formula that doesn't exist. The idea that the gene(s) for having a large heart that functions to enable it's owner to be an elite athlete are on one chromosome is utterly ludicrous. If it is so obvious, why aren't the people that "discovered" this theory having champions year upon year.

ditto for me.

and you base this position on what?/

griff

Well if you study the lines you will see where it falls true. It's common genetics. Australia has known about it years before the US and it took Secretariat for them to see the truth to it. Easy science.



quote="Tonno100"]For me, this theory is like plenty others in racehorse breeding, looking for a magic formula that doesn't exist. The idea that the gene(s) for having a large heart that functions to enable it's owner to be an elite athlete are on one chromosome is utterly ludicrous. If it is so obvious, why aren't the people that "discovered" this theory having champions year upon year.[/quote]

There are many factors that are based on X chromosome factors. In humans, the growth of long bones is "turned on" by an X factor component. Male pattern baldness, hemophilia, and color blindness are all carried on the X chromosome.

Here is a decent explanation of the science:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_disorder

Just as there are genetic disorder associated, there would also be potential genetic "improvers" (for lack of a better word).

Notice, also, that there are a few Y chromosome disorders, namely infertility or low fertility.

Hairy ears are on the Y. This is hair on the outside of the ear. Most common in the Afghan/Pakistan tribal males.

Let's not forget HYPP (which isn't a sex-based issue, but genetically transferred, nonetheless).

I have my own suspicions about a prominent sire's sons who seem to die at an early age of cardiac issues, not to mention their progeny that keel over at the races and 2 yo sales in alarming numbers.

As far as performance--genetic ability is part of the equation, soundness, conformation, interest, environmental factors, and most of all management also play a part.