OWNERS - who owns an (A to A+++ nick) STALLION?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
OWNERS - who owns an (A to A+++ nick) STALLION?
If your TB stallion was BRED to be an (A to A+++) WERK NICK, please tell us who they are. Thank you!
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KMO_racing
- Allowance Winner
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- Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:49 pm
- Location: Suffolk Downs
A++
Fanlew Farms is standing Wynn In Command in LA He has a A++ nick rating. Farm website is www.fanlewfarm.com 
Thanks,
Kathy
Kathy
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Hold Your Peace
- Allowance Winner
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- Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:12 am
The Green Monkey is himself an A++ Werk Nick.
But a stallions own Werk nick rating is totally meaningless.
All a nick rating shows is if a foal, or a potential foal, represents a pattern that has had success in the past producing stakes winning RUNNERS. And to define pattern, all these nicking systems are looking at is the foals sire line and the sire line of the foal's broodmare sire.
A Nick rating is absolutely not some measure of quality of an individual or any sort of measure of breeding potential of an individual.
A retired horse like a stallion is what he is.
If anything, somebody telling me that a stallion who showed little or no ability on the racecourse was an A++ nick just means to me that despite the nicking people saying the horse had an excellent chance to be a stakes winner he STILL failed. It means they can't even blame his lack of ability on the fact that his breeding represented a cross that had a very poor record of producing stakes winners.
But a stallions own Werk nick rating is totally meaningless.
All a nick rating shows is if a foal, or a potential foal, represents a pattern that has had success in the past producing stakes winning RUNNERS. And to define pattern, all these nicking systems are looking at is the foals sire line and the sire line of the foal's broodmare sire.
A Nick rating is absolutely not some measure of quality of an individual or any sort of measure of breeding potential of an individual.
A retired horse like a stallion is what he is.
If anything, somebody telling me that a stallion who showed little or no ability on the racecourse was an A++ nick just means to me that despite the nicking people saying the horse had an excellent chance to be a stakes winner he STILL failed. It means they can't even blame his lack of ability on the fact that his breeding represented a cross that had a very poor record of producing stakes winners.
Hold Your Peace wrote:The Green Monkey is himself an A++ Werk Nick.
But a stallions own Werk nick rating is totally meaningless.
All a nick rating shows is if a foal, or a potential foal, represents a pattern that has had success in the past producing stakes winning RUNNERS. And to define pattern, all these nicking systems are looking at is the foals sire line and the sire line of the foal's broodmare sire.
A Nick rating is absolutely not some measure of quality of an individual or any sort of measure of breeding potential of an individual.
A retired horse like a stallion is what he is.
If anything, somebody telling me that a stallion who showed little or no ability on the racecourse was an A++ nick just means to me that despite the nicking people saying the horse had an excellent chance to be a stakes winner he STILL failed. It means they can't even blame his lack of ability on the fact that his breeding represented a cross that had a very poor record of producing stakes winners.
You make several great points. But even a stallion was a colt at some point, a foal that was planned by by a breeder who wanted the best possible chance to produce a great winner. Win or loose - could have meant the horse wasn't trained properly, poor track, poor conformation...........other things that kept him from going on.
I guess a big question is how many breeders today rely on the nick system to breed TB's? 90%, 75%, 50%, 25%, or no one?
Do breeders try and just breed F's or C's because it has been working for them for years, or is the general breeder population trying to stay with C-B-A's as a preference/guide, to help determine who they breed to?
Thank you for your opinions!!
Werk Nicks change every 6 month, True Nicks are updated daily. What may not have been a A or above when the male horse was conceived maybe a A or above now.
Any Nick rating system will disclaim that nicks are only a "tool" for breeders to use. Your eyes and your brain should be the best tools to relay on.
Any Nick rating system will disclaim that nicks are only a "tool" for breeders to use. Your eyes and your brain should be the best tools to relay on.
GREAT INFORMATION! 
MY GUT ALWAYS TOLD ME IT WAS NOT FULL PROOF, THAT THERE WAS A LOT MORE INVOLVED AS I SUSPECTED. BEFORE THIS SYSTEM WAS EVER THOUGHT UP, BREEDERS HAVE DONE PRETTY WELL ON THEIR OWN MATCHING UP THE BEST CROSSES THEY COULD FIND FOR THEIR MARES AND DIDN'T PAY A WEBSITE $20 HORSE TO DO SO. AN INTERESTING TOOL YES, BUT I'M SURE F'S CAN WIN AND A+++'S CAN LOOSE.
MY GUT ALWAYS TOLD ME IT WAS NOT FULL PROOF, THAT THERE WAS A LOT MORE INVOLVED AS I SUSPECTED. BEFORE THIS SYSTEM WAS EVER THOUGHT UP, BREEDERS HAVE DONE PRETTY WELL ON THEIR OWN MATCHING UP THE BEST CROSSES THEY COULD FIND FOR THEIR MARES AND DIDN'T PAY A WEBSITE $20 HORSE TO DO SO. AN INTERESTING TOOL YES, BUT I'M SURE F'S CAN WIN AND A+++'S CAN LOOSE.