Pedigree Query

Opinions, honest ones, requested.

I have just been offered/given a very nice stallion! He has a back-story, however…. He was owned by a man whom I believe didn’t know a lot about breeding horses or the thoroughbred industry. The stallion only bred one mare, back in 2000, and there was no resulting foal. He does have a fertility certificate from Purdue University, however. This is a true case of never being given a chance. This horse has been knocking around Indiana for at least 10 years, and I have always been intrigued

Thus, I have a 18 year old stallion who was a whirlwind at 2 in Europe. He is dual Listed winner ULTIMO IMPERATORE (joint second top-rated 2-y-o in Italy). He raced in Italy, Ireland, Germany, France, England, UAE, and USA.

He's the only son of champion CADEAUX GENEREUX in the United States. Cadeaux Genereux has named champion 3YO sprinter in 1988 and champion older sprinter in 1989. He is a multiple Gr.1 winner and course record holder over six and seven furlongs at Newmarket. Among his victories were the prestigious Gr.1 July Cup at Newmarket and the Gr.1 William Hill Sprint Championship at York. He retired to stud as the most successful racing son of Young Generation. Cadeaux Genereux has proceeded to sire plenty of high quality, precious sprinters of his own. Among his more than 50 SWs are Gr.1 winners Bahamian Bounty, Bijou d’Inde, May Ball and Embassy, etc. Cadeaux Genereux also sires almost 80% runners to foals and 65% winners to foals. He is also off to a good start as a sire of sires with promising young son Bahamian Bounty, among others. Finally, he is on his way to become an important broodmare sire as evidenced by seven of his daughters having produced GSWs in 2006, including G1 winners Ashkal Way, Notnowcato, and Rajeem.

Out of NORPELLA, won twice and also dam of SUGARFOOT, whose victories included the Gr. III Park Stakes, Gr. III Leicestershire Stakes, Listed Hambleton Stakes and Listed Michaelk Page International Silver Trophy, and CARLITO BRIGANTE (3 races, £26,702). From the great Moller family of successful sires MOST WELCOME and NICOLOTTE and classic winners TEENOSO (Derby, King George VI & Queen Elizabeth Diamond Stakes, Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud), FAVOLETTA, GIVE THANKS, HARAYIR, etc.

He's also about 16.1 hands, chestnut with big Bend Or spots all over his neck area.

I do not delude myself – this horse has very little appeal to anyone looking for commercial pedigrees. However, turf folks MIGHT be interested? I would be able to support him with my band of Northern Dancer-line mares Helen O., Cunningly, and Seaven Teares. Also, Silver Narcissus by Silver Hawk.

his 1/2 brother's pic is here
http://www.nortongrovestud.co.uk/sugarfoot.html

his sire's info here
http://www.darley.co.uk/our-stallions/c ... x/Pedigree

and his 1/2 brother who was a successful hurdler here
http://www.famousracehorses.co.uk/carlito.htm

and the website that the man created is here
http://www.ramirez-consulting.com/ultimoimperatore/

And interestingly, Cadeaux Genereux has a son out of a Northfields mare (same cross) who is:

BIJOU DINDE (GB) ch. H, 1993 DP = 4-0-4-4-2 (14) DI = 0.75 CD = 0.00 - 17 Starts, 3 Wins, 3 Places, 2 Shows Career Earnings: Pds 281,953

Owner: Jockey Club Of Turkey, a couru sous les couleurs de J.S. Morrison
Breeder: Whitsbury Manor Stud
State Bred: ON
Winnings: 17 Starts: 3 - 3 - 2, Pds 281,953

1st St.James' Palace S. Gr.1 (GB), Futurity S. Gr.3 (IRE), Acomb Condition S. L. (GB). 2nd Eclipse S. Gr.1 (GB), 3rd 2000 Guineas Gr.1 (GB), Juddmonte International S. Gr.1 (GB), 4th Irish 2000 Guineas Gr.1 (IRE).

Top European colt on the 1996 International 3YO Classification (International) Annual Timeform R Shuttled to New Zealand 1999-00. Exported to Turkey, Standing at Izmit Central Stud.

If you're serious about supporting him or finding the right mares for him and offering the connections discounts, focus on the Northfields aspect of the pedigree.

Inbreeding to that female family has been hugely successful.

I would seek anything that carries Habitat and more Little Hut/Savage Beauty blood.

Being in Indiana, it shouldn't be too difficult to find some Western Playboy mares around needing new ownership or discounted seasons.

great suggestion!

While I know that most people are going to see this as a purely turf pedigree, I like it for the precosity and speed it offers. My hope is that any foals would be good 2 year olds and sprinters to milers. That would fit the Indiana-bred program well.

If you believe he will sire good racehorses then you have to look at breeding to him from a cost perspective. You imply you acquired him for no cost, therefore you have no sunk costs to recover and therefore your sire costs are reduced to the costs of keeping and managing a stallion which if you have the facilities for a stallion isn't very much. Therefore you can bring a foal to the sales at a much lower cost so that if buyers aren't impressed by pedigree you are going to be able to sell the yearling for close to cost and hope to get your profit from breeder and stallion bonus (because you believe the foals will be decent racehorses). This business model is all about bringing good product to market at low cost.

Given that this sire line is Bay Ronald through Tudor Minstrel, I would suggest you look for mares that have a lot of Bay Ronald blood particularly Hyperion. Wild Again is a good source, as is Northern Dancer and particularly Dixiland Band. IMO Bay Ronald blood responds very well to linebreeding, whichever branch you use you can't have too much.

You're right - he is very interesting. I have a mare I would consider breeding to him. She's in IN now, waiting to foal.

too bad you didn't get this guy about 10 yrs ago...

jm

I know... at 18 the best I can do is send my mares to him and get a few outside mares. I'll never "prove" him, but it would be great to see if I can get a few runners.

Lisann wrote:You're right - he is very interesting. I have a mare I would consider breeding to him. She's in IN now, waiting to foal.

Another mare besides Ali? Which mare is this?

Have you gotten him in yet? My vet was trying to get me to take him last week and when they when to look him up, they said he was listed as a gelding.

Brisnet DOES have him listed as a gelding. Hard to get a racehorse from him then

How recent is that fertility certificate from Purdue? I doubt they would issue one for a gelding.

he's a stallion; JC has him listed as a horse and the folks who handle them report two bigguns back there.

No clue why brisnet has him listed that way... I saw that and started the questions immediately.

All boy, according to the lady who boards him.