Swain vs Mustanfar

Bid · Postby **Bid** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:40 pm

I was wondering if anyone had opinions about these two. I like the line through Height of Fashion in both horses. Any thoughts as to whether it might be more influential based on location in each pedigree? Any likes/dislikes? What lines would you mix each with?

Rahy85 · Postby **Rahy85** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:09 pm

As big a fan of Swain as I was during his racing days... and as much as I wanted him to succeed as a sire, he just hasn't gotten it done. His genetic material seems to be all over the map as evidenced by the lack of uniformity in his progeny.

I wasn't impressed with the Unbridled horse when I saw him last year... though that doesn't mean he can't succeed. I would have to say the odds are stacked against him though with his turf credentials and the mares he likely attracted at a 2k fee.

On a positive note... you won't find a better farm on the planet to deal with than Shadwell. Perhaps the classiest group of people in all of KY.

Bid · Postby **Bid** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:15 pm

Thanks for the info Rahy. Actually the turf part is what I liked :wink:

Who would you mix either with in your opinion?

Rahy85 · Postby **Rahy85** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:34 pm

Just off the top of my head without doing a whole lot of research... daughters of Gulch would probably fair well either considering Height of Fashion produced Nayef... and Gulch in general has always done well with turf pedigrees.

I have pictures of Swain and Mustanfar (spelling?) that I took at Shadwell if you're interested... PM me if you want them.

Rahy85 · Postby **Rahy85** » Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:37 pm

Whoops... I misspoke. I don't have anything of Mustanfar... but I do have the Swain pictures.

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:25 am

Rahy85 wrote:Just off the top of my head without doing a whole lot of research... daughters of Gulch would probably fair well either considering Height of Fashion produced Nayef... and Gulch in general has always done well with turf pedigrees.

I have pictures of Swain and Mustanfar (spelling?) that I took at Shadwell if you're interested... PM me if you want them.

Swain needs Nijinsky. Period. All of his better runners and most of his stakes horses have had Nijinsky in there somewhere. He doesn't seem to be too picky about how he gets it, either, although both his millionaires are out of Caerleon mares.

He'd be useful for a Royal Academy or Sky Classic mare looking to run on the lawn at Woodbine, Laurel, or Colonial, I think.

springboro · Postby **springboro** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:07 am

I owned (briefly) a gorgeous Swain son. He was stakes placed from an amazing European turf family, but certainly not attractive to American breeders. He is currently in Venezuela, I believe.

I too had always had high hopes for the royal blooded Swain.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:37 am

I echo the sentiment above regarding Shadwell, WONDERFUL folks to deal with. I also think they offer breeders some great values - low stud fees.

The market forces send the "low stud fee" offspring to the end of the sales, though, and it seems as though Keeneland, particularly, shuns the bargain-fee yearlings. So I would categorize these stallions, Mustanfar and Swain, as "breed to race." Without researching statistics, Mustanfar's pedigree fairly screams "Storm Cat" to me for damlines... followed by other sources of Northern Dancer, as well as Sir Gaylord, Caro and In Reality. For Swain, besides Nijinsky, it seems like Phone Trick/Clever Trick mares and Mr. Prospector might figure in - actually daughters of Intidab would be interesting there.

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:41 am

Swain has been a bit of a genetic oddity. On paper, his pedigree is second to none, yet he's been a border-line horrible stallion.

I was confident he was going to turn it on as a broodmare sire, but at this point, his numbers there are just as horrible.

It's really a shame because he's a source for outcross blood and stamina.

Bid · Postby **Bid** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:13 pm

Swain's ped is certainly as impresive as you could hope for, especially for us turf lovers. I guess I look at it and think that somewhere in there is a star that could be pulled out with the right mix. As has been mentioned, I'm sure he doesn't get the mares to get it done like the dirt stallions.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:22 am

I think Swain is recorded as having covered something like 23 mares last year.

pokeyman · Postby **pokeyman** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:49 am

Swain is a massive disappointment at stud. I had high hopes for him.....However, I wouldn't waste my money. He has no business being at stud.

His foals win at a far, far, far below average win percentage for all stallions standing in NA (a pathetic 40%).

His median earnings is a paltry $12,000.

He has a 1.19 AEI while breeding some of the best mares available to him and his CI is still over 2.00.

Total dud. Pass.

erins isle · Postby **erins isle** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:04 am

I too had high expectations about Swain. Why not send him to Europe?
Flat and National Hunt?