Monba to PA

[ASB]

This was mentioned in the general thread a few weeks ago, but what an interesting horse for Pa breeders.

Love his pedigree. He has a terrific female family and he had some legitimate talent. I can't speak about his physical, but he's free of Northern Dancer and Mr. Prospector, and deserves a close inspection if you're in the Pa market.

[KBEquine]

This was mentioned in the general thread a few weeks ago, but what an interesting horse for Pa breeders.

Love his pedigree. He has a terrific female family and he had some legitimate talent. I can't speak about his physical, but he's free of Northern Dancer and Mr. Prospector, and deserves a close inspection if you're in the Pa market.

We are (in the PA market) & I agree with everything you said.

But I'm afraid that a new stallion in a regional market - even Pennsylvania - is over-priced at his stud fee, especially in this economy.

I wish Penn Ridge well & hope they're right on his fee & I'm wrong. And I'll be as happy as anyone, if I'm wrong & he does really well.

But most of the folks who I know who breed-to-race in Pennsylvania expect some serious concessions on the stud fees of PA-based sires & most of the folks I know in PA who breed horses for the commercial market breed only in Kentucky.

And believe me, that's something I've studied a lot, the past several years!

I sometimes think I need to breed 1 or 2 mares/year in Kentucky, but that would mean finding a Kentuckian with a farm & good mare-care who wanted to swap mare-care with a PA farm owner who can foal out mares . . .

But I digress . . .

[LB]

But I'm afraid that a new stallion in a regional market - even Pennsylvania - is over-priced at his stud fee, especially in this economy.

I haven't seen his stud fee mentioned anywhere. What is it going to be?

[KBEquine]

You know, I was almost sure I saw a $5,000 or $6,000 fee listed somewhere, but right now, I'm not sure if I actually saw that because I can't find it, again.

Maybe it'll be less & he'll have the mares lining up.

[ASB]

Maybe I'm just use to Kentucky fees, but 5 or 6k for a G1 winner is a great deal to me!

[Bohemia]

I was looking for his stud fee, too, but couldn't find it. It's not even on the Penn Ridge web site. Oh well, it'll come out sooner or later. I would think it wouldn't be less than $5,000.

[winds]

Request For Parole's fee is way under 5k and he's a GrI winner.

winds

[ASB]

Request for Parole is about as non-commercial as you can get. There's without question, a big difference in pedigree between the two.

Add in the fact that RfP's wins came at 11f over the turf, and you can see why they had to price him very conservatively.

Monba on the other hand got his G1 win in a major Derby prep, is out of a great female family that has produced some consistent sires, and his pedigree is second to few.

If he is going to stand for 6k (I actually think they might try the 7.5-10k range), he's a good deal.

[KBEquine]

Request for Parole is about as non-commercial as you can get. There's without question, a big difference in pedigree between the two. . . . If he is going to stand for 6k (I actually think they might try the 7.5-10k range), he's a good deal.

I've been cruising major sale catalogs for a couple years, looking for the PA-bred, PA-sired sale horses & they just don't make it to the major sales at all & they don't sell especially well even in the regional sales. Not enough to support the stud fee.

I'm not dissing the stallion(s) I'm just saying that the folks who go to public auctions & want to buy a PA-bred won't buy one who is PA-sired (with a very few exceptions) & the 'kiss of death' is a horse sired by a new regional sire because right or wrong, people automatically think, "If that G1-winning stallion was likely to be any good at stud, they'd have retired him to Kentucky . . ."

So even if Monba is SO good he is likely to move to Kentucky after his first foal crop races . . . the chances are slim-to-none that those first foals will return even a $5k stud fee, unless the mares are also outstanding. And barring extraordinarily good support by his owners, the outstanding PA mares will go to Kentucky sires any way, so it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[winds]

Well I guess I'm stupid because I like Request For Parole and I'm selling my filly by him next year at Timonium. Personally I like a stallion that ran as long as he did, stayed sound, won short and long on the dirt and turf. If someone wants a horse that will run as a 2yr old and get better with age, even running in stakes as a 2yr old then he is the stallion to go to.

I like the baby I got from him out of my mare, she has a great hip, unbelievable shoulder, short back, good conformation, short cannon bones, floats over the ground when she runs, has a great mind, is athletic. Hmmm, I think I'll get what I want for her at the sale, I'm not looking to make hundreds of thoudsands, just enough to cover expenses and make some money.

If I wanted KY or Saratoga sales prices I'd have to pay for KY stallions, I don't have that kind of money, but I know a good race horse when I see one and one that I believe will throw good racehorses. I believe in Request For Parole.

winds

[ASB]

Winds, you're confusing lack of commercial appeal as a knock on the quality of the horse.

I'm not saying Request for Parole isn't a quality horse and not worth breeding to, but he's certainly not commercial in any light.

[Bohemia]

KB Equine is right. If you want validation of Pa.-bred and/or sired horses not selling well even in the regional sales, just check out the Shartlesville sale at Mountain Springs arena on Aug. 23. You'll see just what kind of market there is for them.

[winds]

I just know I've done well with regional sires or no name sires in the regional market as long as the yearling is a nice specimen. Maybe I've been lucky, but then again, I'm not looking to have the sale topper, I'm looking to make a little money over my costs.

I've had a 30k and a 35k yearling by 5k stallions and I sold one I bought as a weanling for 1,700 for 13k. All were nice looking yearlings that were athletic. The two that went for 30k (+) earned over 100k the 13k one had physical problems and only earned 25k. I bred the first two, the 3rd someone else did.

winds

[Bohemia]

I called Penn Ridge - Monba is standing for $5,000. They are selling shares in him, also.

[ASB]

That's a deal in my opinion. Have a decent, well conformed mare with a good page and there's no reason you shouldn't be able to make a profit on a well-conformed foal at the Mid-Atlantic sales.