Pedigree Query

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... n=20091204

Seems like some horses will still rise no matter what.

madelyn wrote:Seems like some horses will still rise no matter what.

At $10k he is still a steal compared to say fellow 1st season sire Roman Ruler at $20K

His AEI compared top the CI is good, although its early days yet.

Plus he is by Carson City and he is really starting to come into to his own as a "potential" sire of sires.

Although he probably has too much Native Dancer/Northen Dancer in his pedigree.

Agreed. His numbers justify a rise in stud fee. Personally, I wouldn't have gone quite that high (based on economy) but I am sure they are meeting somewhere in the middle. I would hope anyway.

But, you have City Zip, Cuvee, and Pollard's Vision all doing well......

I would classify Carson City as a sire of sires not a "potential" sire of sires. Seems like City Zip might be the better value right now but in a couple of years who knows.

Hey Dublino, I agree that Pollard's Vision has been a surprising success as a freshman sire and deserves an increase - Even in this economy I think he is fairly priced at $10,000 - sire of a G1 winner in his first crop, and 4 other stakes horses.

But let's not knock Roman Ruler's performance - while expected to be one of the better Freshmen Sires, he has met the expectation well (#2 Freshman Sire) with a G1 winner and 4 other Graded stakes horses - some extremely talented horses that appear to be on the Derby Trail (Homeboykris, Rule, Roman Invasion). I think Roman Ruler's $20,000 fee is fair.

da hossman wrote:But let's not knock Roman Ruler's performance - while expected to be one of the better Freshmen Sires, he has met the expectation well (#2 Freshman Sire) with a G1 winner and 4 other Graded stakes horses - some extremely talented horses that appear to be on the Derby Trail (Homeboykris, Rule, Roman Invasion). I think Roman Ruler's $20,000 fee is fair.

Not knocking Roman Ruler at all just comparing prices etc and results so far.

I do think, my opinion only, that Roman Ruler might be the better sire out of the two of them he so far has gotten the classier runners and to maintain any sort of hope yound studs need a big horse in their first two years and I believe Roman Ruler might just have one or two or even three!

Fair enough, they are both nice horses!

I have been surprised by Offlee Wild's first crop - She Be Wild is obviously a serious horse and then there is the West Point colt that has been a "talkin' horse" since Saratoga (Middleofthenite?). Not one I would have predicted.

Another surprise to me has been Kitten's Joy - say what you will about Ramsey spreading them around to have the greater opportunity to get multiple winners, they have done it and done it on the dirt - my biggest surprise as KJ was without question a turf horse!

It is the surprises that make the game so very interesting don't you think?

da hossman wrote:It is the surprises that make the game so very interesting don't you think?

If the old addage of breed the best to the best were true.
Wouldn't life be just boring then.............

Its amazing how a poor claimer can produce a grade 1 runner from an unfassionable sire, that is the beauty or torture of it all.

I really like Offlee Wild's pedigree, the HYPERION, DANTE, ROUND TABLE, BOLD RULER AND RIBOT, its really nice.

Also he is from the family of 4-r Zenyatta's family
http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/Families/Family4r.htm

As for Kittens Joy hmmmmmmm $40k - they are having a laugh?
Same numbers as Pollards Vision but they are trying to sell the El Prado line here not their own horse.

I think the Ramsey's can set any $ they want on Kitten's Joy not like they care if gets outside mares.

oliverstoned wrote:I think the Ramsey's can set any $ they want on Kitten's Joy not like they care if gets outside mares.

If that is true why can't they pay their bills?

madelyn wrote:

oliverstoned wrote:I think the Ramsey's can set any $ they want on Kitten's Joy not like they care if gets outside mares.

If that is true why can't they pay their bills?

Really, I hadn't heard , do tell.

It's no secret in Kentucky.

madelyn wrote:

oliverstoned wrote:I think the Ramsey's can set any $ they want on Kitten's Joy not like they care if gets outside mares.

If that is true why can't they pay their bills?

this a story heard over and over again........what is his problem ?

It's been my experience the richer someone is the slower they pay their bills. Is this the case with the Ramseys or is the well running dry ? With all their horses in training plus breeding stock their overhead must be HUGE.

hey madelynn you gotta admit though by setting Kittens Joy's stud fee at 40k it doesn't seem like they're trying to tempt outside mares in.

I really couldn't say what their motivation is with Kitten's Joy. If the last three years were nearly all Ramsey owned mares (131 in '06, 97 in '07 and 116 in '08) I would say yes, the bills must be ENORMOUS, not to mention the money they are going to owe the sales companies on all of the RNA's and "below cost" offspring.

But these tales of woe go back to the very beginning, where the Ramseys made "all of their money" and still stiffed all of their trainers, feed suppliers, vets, farriers, etc.