Pedigree Query

...as a breed to race sire and thoughts on him in general

skywatcher wrote:...as a breed to race sire and thoughts on him in general

I like him a lot!!!!! If you have a non- Northern Dancer/non-Mr. prospector mare, that is.

But, I think I am more in love with his family. The only other stallion representatives of his female family in America/Canada are Desert God and Jazil.

I wish I had a Blushing groom/Runaway Groom/Rahy daughter......!!

He's interesting and had some really good speed. I was also told by a friend who saw him that he's pretty damn good looking with nothing glaring.

It's difficult for me to think of any unproven stallion as a breed-to-race sire; but if I were to do so I would probably pick one that won a race after the age of two.

Hear hear LB! If one is breeding to race one should breed to a proven stallion - especially when one considers that historically only 1 in every 9 new stallions that start in KY are still in KY 6 years later.

Thank you! I was sitting here thinking, how can a horse with no foals on the ground, much less runners, be considered breed-to-race? All they are is unproven.

I think he is a really interesting stallion prospect and adore his female family.

Oh, I take breed to race simply to mean a stallion that will not be commercial. In his case, I felt it was applied accurately. Breed to race= non-commercial.

If I had a super proven mare that has gotten high class runners from different stallions than I wouldn't hesitate to breed her to an unproven stallion with a fantastic (an uncommon) family.

Also, for all of you who would never breed to a stallion that didn't win after 2....guess you wouldn't have bred to El Prado, huh?

I take breed to race as breeding not for the commercial market, but to have a race horse. An unproven horse is very likely to NOT get you a racehorse. Breed to race to me is like Devil His Due, Slew City Slew, Mutakkddim, City Zip...those are horses that will get you a race horse. The list of Breed to Race stallions is just as short as Breed to Sell; theres not that many of them. The rest of the unproven horses and bad stallions are Breed to Lose Money.

He ran twice at three and twice at four, wonder what was up with that.

Fireslam wrote:I take breed to race as breeding not for the commercial market, but to have a race horse. An unproven horse is very likely to NOT get you a racehorse. Breed to race to me is like Devil His Due, Slew City Slew, Mutakkddim, City Zip...those are horses that will get you a race horse. The list of Breed to Race stallions is just as short as Breed to Sell; theres not that many of them. The rest of the unproven horses and bad stallions are Breed to Lose Money.

Well said! Unfortunately.

It strikes me funny the way "breed to race" v "breed commercially" comes out sometimes. It sounds like the former are creating something that wouldn't attract a bid at auction yet is going to kick all the GC's butts, and the latter will sell for millions then break his maiden for $5000 claiming as a four year old gelding. (Sorry, my sense of humor is warped from Christmas shopping.)

Fireslam wrote:I take breed to race as breeding not for the commercial market, but to have a race horse. An unproven horse is very likely to NOT get you a racehorse. Breed to race to me is like Devil His Due, Slew City Slew, Mutakkddim, City Zip...those are horses that will get you a race horse. The list of Breed to Race stallions is just as short as Breed to Sell; theres not that many of them. The rest of the unproven horses and bad stallions are Breed to Lose Money.

Well, I guess all of the people who bred to Birdstone; Pollard's Vision, and Medaglio D'oro his first year are stupid. As a breeder, sometimes you take a risk..notice I said sometime and not always.

I, personally, prefer proven stallions but when you are a breeder you make exceptions if you would like to add certain bloodlines into your program.

I have never bred to an unproven stallion but am thinking of doing so this year. I would like to add very uncommon bloodlines into my program and might take a chance with my most proven mare.

I actually have a breeding PROGRAM and am not just a person who "breeds to race". I breed; race; retain the fillies I breed to breed themselves; and so on....

So, please don't use a cookie cutter model for everyone in every circumstance. Who are you to tell me I am being ridiculous for breeding to an unproven stallion one time out of 9 to acquire specific bloodlines into my race program?

This stallion is a good race prospect. Unproven stallions should be bred to proven mares. Unproven maiden mares should be bred to proven stallions.

But, I am not going to judge anyone. This stallion has just as much of a shot as breeding a good racehorse as any. He is a breed to race stallion and not commercial.

I bred this same mare to Cozzene for my colt and she has been a solid producing mare for me.

I find it amusing that people still breed to proven stallions who have "proven" to suck and not improve their mares. Yet, they still have full books.

To each his own. I race so I breed to proven stallions but I will take a shot on an unproven stallion (who has specific bloodlines I want in my program) with a proven mare hoping for a filly to incorporate back into my program.

pokeyman wrote:

Fireslam wrote:I take breed to race as breeding not for the commercial market, but to have a race horse. An unproven horse is very likely to NOT get you a racehorse. Breed to race to me is like Devil His Due, Slew City Slew, Mutakkddim, City Zip...those are horses that will get you a race horse. The list of Breed to Race stallions is just as short as Breed to Sell; theres not that many of them. The rest of the unproven horses and bad stallions are Breed to Lose Money.

Well, I guess all of the people who bred to Birdstone; Pollard's Vision, and Medaglio D'oro his first year are stupid. As a breeder, sometimes you take a risk..notice I said sometime and not always.

Where did you get that from??? Birdstone and Medaglio D'oro were definitely breed to sell prospects...both being multiple grade one winners. Pollards Vision was a surprise to a lot of people, a pleasant surprise, but still a surprise. Its no secret that the largest percentage of stallions entering stud will be busts and end up in Timbuktu.