Dunkirk retired to Ashford

[Toral]

Is there ANY son of Unbridled's Song at stud that has run more than 10 times or raced as a 4 or 5 year old? Lol.

The story- http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... at-ashford

[choltz]

Political Force
17 starts age 2,3,4
Won G1 Suburban 10 furlong

Domestic Dispute, First Defence, Even The Score...shhhh, don't want to start a Louis-style 90 page soundness thread.

[Toral]

I remembered Even The Score after I posted. But US seems to have a crapton of sons at stud with so few starts! It's starting to look like a trend!

[RuffianT21]

It's certainly true that I just roll my eyes when I hear someone talking about a highly touted son of UBS on the triple crown trail-- the chances of that horse making it sound to the Derby are about zero. Rockport Harbor, Buddha, Old Fashioned... After a while they all start to look the same.

I guess Eight Belles and Dunkirk count as soundness success stories by that metric.

[Dubai-Millennium]

i think dunkirk had some serious potential

[scrappyt]

Is there ANY son of Unbridled's Song at stud that has run more than 10 times or raced as a 4 or 5 year old? Lol.

Thorn Song.
29 Starts: 8 - 4 - 4, $1,132,514

At 4: Won River City H. (G3T); 2nd Knickerbocker H. (G3T)
At 5: Won Shadwell Turf Mile S. (G1T), Firecracker H. (G2T); 3rd Maker's Mark Mile (G1T), Fourstardave H. (G2T)
At 6: Won Shoemaker Mile H. (G1T)

[Linda_d]

i think dunkirk had some serious potential

I think it was noted football coach Bill Parcells who noted that "potential" essentially meant that "you ain't done s##t".

[Jorge]

UNBRIDLED TIME: http://www.pedigreequery.com/unbridled+time

[aethervox]

Here are Unbridled's Song stallions listed in the Bloodhorse Stallion Register that entered stud after age 4 AND started 10+ times (per the Pedigree Query database):

Blazing Song; entered stud at age 10; started 28 times.
Brand Name; entered stud at age 5; started 11 times.
Crafty Song; entered stud at age 6; started 13 times.
Decibel; entered stud at age 6; started 20 times.
Domestic Dispute; entered stud at age 5; started 21 times.
Elijah's Song; entered stud at age 6; started 10 times.
Equinox; entered stud at age 6; started 25 times.
Eurosilver; entered stud at age 5; started 12 times.
Even The Score; entered stud at age 7; started 29 times.
First Defence; entered stud at age 5; started 14 times.
Going Commando; entered stud at age 6; started 16 times.
Grey Beard; entered stud at age 7; started 37 times.
Griffinite; entered stud at age 6; started 28 times.
Noonmark; entered stud at age 7; started 19 times.
Political Force; entered stud at age 5; started 17 times.
Sharp Shooter; entered stud at age 5; started 15 times.
Song of the Sword; entered stud at age 5; started 12 times.
Striking Song; entered stud at age 6; started 12 times.
Unbridled America; entered stud at age 9; started 48 times.
Unbridled Mate; entered stud at age 7; started 23 times.
Unbridled Spring; entered stud at age 7; started 15 times.
Unbridled Time; entered stud at age 5; started 24 times.
Value Plus; entered stud at age 5; started 15 times.
Werblin; entered stud at age 6; started 10 times.

[Nessa]

The thing is the more the perceived value at stud the more likely the horse is to retired if he represents a hot sireline. If Unbridled's Song wasn't perceived as a sire of sires then his sons would stay on the track alot longer. The mare owners are the ones making this monster. If they don't breed to these quickly retired horses then their owners won't retire most of them so soon.

[brogers]

Last time I checked Unbridled's Song had an average starts per foal and an average starts per runner that was just about the same as AP Indy and Distorted Humor yet he gets the flak. Is he being unfairly treated?

[Hold Your Peace]

Last time I checked Unbridled's Song had an average starts per foal and an average starts per runner that was just about the same as AP Indy and Distorted Humor yet he gets the flak. Is he being unfairly treated?

And there are plenty of lightly raced sons of A.P. Indy at stud like Malibu Moon (2 starts), Jump Start (5 starts), and even Pulpit (6 starts).

[Mahubah]

Head-to-head comparisons per equineline.com, using foals age 3 and up by Northern Hemisphere standards (since the newly turned NH 2-yr-olds haven't had any opportunity to race yet):

A.P. Indy: 1032 foals, 765 runners (74.1%), 544 winners (52.7%), 129 SWs (12.5%), 78 GSWs (7.6%), 8 champions, average starts/runner 12.6, average earnings/runner $139,153, AEI 3.14, CI 3.60.

Distorted Humor: 812 foals, 644 runners (79.3%), 494 winners (60.8%), 80 SWs (9.9%), 30 GSWs (3.7%), 3 champions, average starts/runner 15.5, average earnings/runner $98,549, AEI 2.34, CI 2.15.

Unbridled's Song: 1068 foals, 781 runners (73.1%), 527 winners (49.3%), 82 SWs (7.7%), 33 GSWs (3.1%), 1 champion, average starts /runner 12.2, average earnings/runner $78,263, AEI 2.04, CI 2.50.

Both Distorted Humor and Unbridled's Song have 3 Southern Hemisphere crops according to the TT Stallion Directory, which on the whole have not done as well as their North American-bred progeny. Both of these sires would fare better if considered only on the merits of their Northern Hemisphere progeny. On the other hand, A.P. Indy's stats have probably suffered more from the tendency towards early retirement of fashionably-bred animals for breeding purposes (particularly fillies), since his progeny on average have stronger families and overall pedigrees (as suggested by his mates' CI).

I suspect the main reason that the Unbridled's Songs have more uneven results is not so much a greater tendency towards unsoundness (as brogers points out, he's reasonably close to A.P. Indy on percentages of runners, winners, and starts per runner) as a need for a bit more careful biomechanical match when mating Unbridled's Song as opposed to the other two, who are (I would guess) a little closer to the center of the American mare population and therefore better fits for a "random" mate. Seems a lot of very large horses have similar problems with consistency; Unbridled himself had his issues in this area, but he could certainly get a runner when everything stacked up right. Like father, like son, I suppose.

[LB]

Last time I checked Unbridled's Song had an average starts per foal and an average starts per runner that was just about the same as AP Indy and Distorted Humor yet he gets the flak. Is he being unfairly treated?

Yes. He is the favorite internet whipping boy for the perpetually uninformed.

[Mahubah]

Anyway, to get back to the original subject, I'd certainly like to know more about why Dunkirk never made it back to the races before drawing any conclusions about his potential as a sire.