Suave to Florida

BargainBlueblood · Postby **BargainBlueblood** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:47 am

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... n=20110119

Does this help, hurt, or not really do anything to his commercial status? He's off to a decent start at stud, and has benefited from large books in his first four seasons, although his sales numbers seem to be floundering. I wonder if an injection of speedy Florida mares in his fifth year at stud may actually give this horse some "legs" and help him to sustain some momentum going forward. He's a horse I really like and am rooting for big-time.

fastappy · Postby **fastappy** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:10 am

Definitely a step in the wrong direction, and having his fee cut in more than half exacerbates the downward valuation. He will really have to come up with some runners to recover from this move, imo. Not impossible but unlikely with lesser mares.

His yearling prices make more sense with a $4,500 stud fee. He needs more starters from of his foals of racing age (153) to really determine what he can/cannot do, but commercially he's done, imo.

LB · Postby LB » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:18 am

It doesn't help his commercial status (leaving Kentucky never does) but it does potentially give his career at stud a shot in the arm. He probably would have struggled to get mares in Kentucky this year, while in Florida where breeders have fewer choices--and are bemoaning the loss of Congrats--he's likely to do much better.

JCBloodstock · Postby **JCBloodstock** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:35 pm

I don't know why so many bemoan Florida mares to be inferior to Kentucky. I've been in this business for well over 30 years and I've seen more stallions made with Florida mares than I can count. I can remember breeding 3 mares to Saint Ballado his first season at stud for $1500 a pop.

I can remember the Mockingbird Farm/Mark Casse years of continuing to have the leading Freshman sires in the Nation for several years in a row over the supposed high dollar stallions in Kentucky.

I remember stallions like Mr. Prospector, Saint Ballado, Kris S, Fappiano, Yes It's True, Exchange Rate and many more who started in Florida and went to Kentucky and become superstars.

Let's not mention the ones who never left Florida - horses like Valid Appeal and Montbrook.

I know there are many more but I'm just trying to make the point that many seem to perceive like if they leave Kentucky their dead in the water.

I'd still take Florida breds over Pennsyvania, Indiana or Louisiana breds any day of the week.

And wasn't the Champion Two Year Old Filly last year one of those lousy Florida breds, sired by a horse with a total of 6 Two year olds last year, a horse that has 80% winners from starters, 20% stakes horses from starters and whose main claim to fame before last year was the fact he won a $50,000 stakes at Tampa. Course now granted, this subject filly was sired by a modest horse, out of a modest mare, a Florida bred and she did win The Breeder's Cup and go undefeated but was still worth 2.4 million at a sale in Kentucky. I don't believe one high-falutin Kentucky bred two year old filly sold for that kind of money in the Winter sales last year.

And I'm not even from Florida but I wouldn't underestimate a stallion moving to Florida as hurting him. I definitely think it's a better move than Indiana, Pennsylvania or Louisiana.

fastappy · Postby **fastappy** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:02 pm

My point is that you are not going to get a better book of mares leaving Kentucky for Florida and cutting the stud fee 55%.

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:53 pm

JCBloodstock wrote: Course now granted, this subject filly was sired by a modest horse, out of a modest mare, a Florida bred and she did win The Breeder's Cup and go undefeated but was still worth 2.4 million at a sale in Kentucky.

I don't disagree with many of your points but the dam of Awesome Feather is anything but modest. She's a multiple stakes winning and graded stakes-placed daughter of Gone West out of one of the best female families in the studbook, not to mention her own dam was a group winner and out of a champion race filly and producer.

clh · Postby **clh** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:30 pm

JC - I was going to mention the stallions you mentioned as well. I talked to Darby Dan this past week and it was mentioned that they still managed the syndicate so they would be able to bring Suave back to KY anytime they felt they wanted to. Having numerous Suave babies - I wish him well in Florida

.

Terrapin Flyer · Postby **Terrapin Flyer** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:26 pm

FASTAPPY, Suave only had 83 live foals in his first crop...so I don't know where the hell you're coming up with the 150+ stat...please don't tell me you're including 2yo's of '11 because if you've seen a 2yo race this year then I'll accept that stat.

Personally I think he's been average and actually in the past month or two has actually moved up a bit, the move is good, will help him along. I have an outstanding looking 2yo filly out of a Belong To Me Mare that I can't wait to get ready for Pimlico this spring.

fastappy · Postby **fastappy** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:36 pm

Terrapin Flyer wrote:FASTAPPY, Suave only had 83 live foals in his first crop...so I don't know where the hell you're coming up with the 150+ stat...please don't tell me you're including 2yo's of '11 because if you've seen a 2yo race this year then I'll accept that stat.

Personally I think he's been average and actually in the past month or two has actually moved up a bit, the move is good, will help him along. I have an outstanding looking 2yo filly out of a Belong To Me Mare that I can't wait to get ready for Pimlico this spring.

Read carefully, I said"He needs more starters from of his foals of racing age (153) to really determine what he can/cannot do, but commercially he's done, imo."

01/17/11 01:25:35 ET equineline.com Product 501S - Suave Page 1 of 2

Statistical summary for the registered progeny of Suave:

3 crops
185 foals
2 crops of racing age
153 foals of racing age
67 current 2 year old foals
32 yearlings
0 weanlings

What fact are you disagreeing with A) that he has a 153 horses of racing age or B) that I believe he will have to have more starters from his 153 horses of racing age before we can determine what he can or can not do?

Currently he has 43 starters if you can tell what he can or can not do with 43 starters I'll be glad to hear your opinion and justification for those conclusions.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:57 am

I believe that no current two year olds, from any stallion, have raced as yet in 2011. So Suave's stats are from the 83 foals in his first crop, which have all just turned three. The HRA stat is misleading because it is much too early in the season for two year olds to really count.

fastappy · Postby **fastappy** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:36 am

madelyn wrote:I believe that no current two year olds, from any stallion, have raced as yet in 2011. So Suave's stats are from the 83 foals in his first crop, which have all just turned three. The HRA stat is misleading because it is much too early in the season for two year olds to really count.

So Equineline's stats are wrong? What exactly is misleading?

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:14 am

It is misleading to claim the horse is a failure due to winners from horses of racing age, when half of those are unstarted two year olds.

fastappy · Postby **fastappy** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:44 am

madelyn wrote:It is misleading to claim the horse is a failure due to winners from horses of racing age, when half of those are unstarted two year olds.

OK, who claimed the horse was a failure?

Terrapin Flyer · Postby **Terrapin Flyer** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 3:48 pm

Counting 2011 2 yo's in any stallions stats right now is idiotic. If you are seriously trying to analize the stallion right now take ONLY his first crop into account which is 83 foals.

fastappy · Postby **fastappy** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:45 pm

Terrapin Flyer wrote:Counting 2011 2 yo's in any stallions stats right now is idiotic. If you are seriously trying to analize the stallion right now take ONLY his first crop into account which is 83 foals.

I simply stated that I believe the horse is finished as far a commercial interest, I did not analyze his performance at this point and clearly stated we will have to wait until he has more runners before we can determine his performance as sire of runners.

You made assumptions based on not comprehending what I clearly stated. I clearly stated, " He needs more starters from of his foals of racing age (153) to really determine what he can/cannot do, but commercially he's done, imo."

The gist of what I said is that we will have to see more runners before we can see what Suave can or cannot do as a sire, and that I don't believe he has any commercial appeal. So I'm saying we can not analyze his performance as a race horse sire until we have more data (runners).

It appears Madelyn and yourself are not thoroughly reading what I said (verbatim) and making inferences that just aren't present in my statement.