Cool Coal Man

[Derby2004]

Any thoughts on Cool Coal Mans chances? I personally love the guy. Mineshaft is one of the hottest stallions around right now and CCM's female line suggests they will be precosious. Add in the fact he raced 30 times, G2 winner and G1 placed with multiple stakes wins, I think he deserves a good shot. At 5k for him, and you can probably get to him a lot lower considering it February, its worth the gamble. Opinions?

[oliverstoned]

Agreed the 30 starts and the family are nice but when considering the other options in Florida I just can't get too excited about him. First of all you have two damn fine proven stallions in Graeme Hall and Put it Back at the same fee. Then there is Musket Man with a ton more ability (granted less pedigree) at half his fee. A horse I think may be comparable to him is Indy Wind, who although he didn't win as much money I feel had similar ability and an equal pedigree (being on the bubble you can get to him pretty darn cheap). While I'm glad to see him retiring to Florida, me personally, I will pass on him.

[Derby2004]

If I was breeding for a mile or less, I would go to Put It Back in a heartbeat. Graeme Hall does crank out runners, but he has no commercial side. Cool Coal Man is by one of the hottest sires in America right now, and has the blood to get some stamina in the foal. Commercial side, he has a lot to offer. He has todays "fashionable" bloodlines that buyers are looking for. Florida overall has a lot to offer: Concerto, Put It Back, Mass Media, Hear No Evil, Montbrook, Graeme Hall, etc. But you know the way of the world in breeding, buyers want todays flavor. Cool Coal Man has very close breeding to Tapit, so 5k is a value compared to the potential he has.

[oliverstoned]

I don't know it's hard to think of any as commercial right now but if I had to guess I think the Musket Man's will be better received than the CCM's. Would have rather have had Coal Play here, how 'bout you?

[Derby2004]

I do agree, Coal Play would be a nice option in florida. Musket Man will not be commercial. He was a blue collar runner from a sire who flopped. (See Congaree). Granted, I would give my left arm for a runner half as talented as Musket Man. But unfortunately his babies will not be commercial. I wonder why Coal Play went to New York?

[Fireslam]

Mineshaft has yet to prove he will sire good sons, and it would be far more worth while to breed to one of his top sons rather than a second tier one. As far as Musket Man, he has every bit as good a chance to be a good sire as Candy Ride, Yes Its True, Montbrook, Northern Afleet, Tiznow, and others who were top caliber runners and by far the best son of their sire. I dont consider grade one winning Yonaguska a flop; his AEI/CI of 1.39/1.21 improved his mares, and he has 4% stakes winners to foals, which I consider quite remarkable considering his CI. He bred a huge crop in LA before being sold.

[Derby2004]

Name another good runner by Yonaguska. One thats a caliber of CCM, Coal Play, Dialed In, Discreetly Mine, etc. Just Musket Man comes to mind. Musket Man was an above average race horse. Yonaguska was not a commercial stallion. Mineshaft is in a resurgance right now and his babies are selling and running. Mark my words, Cool Coal Man will be a lot more commercial than Musket Man. But if breeding off of racing ability alone, I like Musket Man. But bloodline wise I like CCM.

[Terrapin Flyer]

For $5k in Fla I would be looking Pomeroy's way. A great winners per starter percentage and is now proving he can get some top class horses too. He was precocius but was a graded winner at 5, so they should get better with age. He reminds me a lot of Northern Afleet, a solid sire of winners that can get you a big one.

[kimberley mine]

Name another good runner by Yonaguska. One thats a caliber of CCM, Coal Play, Dialed In, Discreetly Mine, etc. Just Musket Man comes to mind. Musket Man was an above average race horse. Yonaguska was not a commercial stallion. Mineshaft is in a resurgance right now and his babies are selling and running. Mark my words, Cool Coal Man will be a lot more commercial than Musket Man. But if breeding off of racing ability alone, I like Musket Man. But bloodline wise I like CCM.

Name me one mare that Yonaguska bred that was anywhere near the quality of the dams of CCM, Coal Play, Discreetly Mine, or Dialed In. Cool Coal Man's female line is the weakest of the lot, and that's saying something.

[Derby2004]

He had 14 triple digit speed figures. I do agree that racing ability is more important than family. But you cant argue with the fact that he has a a great female line. So in short, he had ability, has the family and looks. The most important aspects of a promising sire. And as far as commercial side goes, it was a good move to put him in florida. So I think he will be very commercial at OBS. If he was to go to kentucky, he would compete with his sire and Discreetly Mine. Had he been run at 7-9 furlongs every race, i believe he would have had a terrific race record.

[Crystal]

With the success Lanes End has promoting sons of AP Indy at stud (more so in regional markets) and the fact they do stand father/son in the same stable often times. I think they did a smart thing by letting this guy to go Florida. He will get some great mares at 5k.

[oliverstoned]

I was talking to a photographer today at Tampa Bay Downs who was in Ocala taking stock photos at Vinery and Hartleys last week. He seemed very impressed with CCM.

[FOS]

hi Derby2004...hi Fireslam

Any thoughts on Cool Coal Mans chances?

Cool Coal Man is a very 'pretty' and kinda neat, handy and athletic-looking stallion prospect, but he is 6 years old already (and fully mature) yet doesn't offer much in the way of bone mass. Hmmm.

Oh well, maybe it'll come, but I for one would prefer to see a whole lot more bone mass on a 6-year-old thoroughbred horse...than I see on 6-yo CCM.

... At 5k for him, and you can probably get to him a lot lower considering it February, its worth the gamble. Opinions?

There are too many foals (by too many young stallions with interesting credentials) going thru the ring and bringing no bid, or $1k, $2k, $3k, $4k, $5k or $6k (maybe a few bucks more) which seems to support the premise that $5k for Cool Coal Man is unrealistic...unrealistic, that is, if the plan is to attract a reasonably good-sized book of outside mares.

You're likely correct that one can get to him for "a lot lower" (your words), but these are challenging times, and (as always) one must consider all the possibilities and options (not just the fee [whether advertised or negotiated]) when selecting a stallion.

... As far as Musket Man, he has every bit as good a chance to be a good sire as Candy Ride, Yes Its True, Montbrook, Northern Afleet, Tiznow ...

As quality a runner as Musket Man was (and he was a good one)...his opportunities, as he begins his new career at stud, may be diminished if/when potential breeders take a long hard look at him (physically).

Yes Musket Man was a wonderful racehorse, and yes he has plenty of size and bone, but he's got a flat croup, a not so robust hindquarters and an extremely straight (near vertical that is) gaskin...and that may deter some (if not many) from using his services.

Respectfully

[FOS]

hi Derby2004...hi Fireslam

Any thoughts on Cool Coal Mans chances?

Cool Coal Man is a very 'pretty' and kinda neat, handy and athletic-looking stallion prospect, but he is 6 years old already (and fully mature) yet doesn't offer much in the way of bone mass. Hmmm.

Oh well, maybe it'll come, but I for one would prefer to see a whole lot more bone mass on a 6-year-old thoroughbred horse...than I see on 6-yo CCM.

... At 5k for him, and you can probably get to him a lot lower considering it February, its worth the gamble. Opinions?

There are too many foals (by too many young stallions with interesting credentials) going thru the ring and bringing no bid, or $1k, $2k, $3k, $4k, $5k or $6k (maybe a few bucks more) which seems to support the premise that $5k for Cool Coal Man is unrealistic...unrealistic, that is, if the plan is to attract a reasonably good-sized book of outside mares.

You're likely correct that one can get to him for "a lot lower" (your words), but these are challenging times, and (as always) one must consider all the possibilities and options (not just the fee [whether advertised or negotiated]) when selecting a stallion.

... As far as Musket Man, he has every bit as good a chance to be a good sire as Candy Ride, Yes Its True, Montbrook, Northern Afleet, Tiznow ...

As quality a runner as Musket Man was (and he was a good one)...his opportunities, as he begins his new career at stud, may be diminished if/when potential breeders take a long hard look at him (physically).

Yes Musket Man was a wonderful racehorse, and yes he has plenty of size and bone, but he's got a flat croup, a not so robust hindquarters and an extremely straight (near vertical that is) gaskin...and that may deter some (if not many) from using his services.

Respectfully

[Derby2004]

Any idea how tall CCM is? From the race videos it appears he is a touch on the short side