Pedigree Query

Why so few mares on Steeplechase races? Would you consider racing an ordinary mare on these type of races after proving that she is too slow for 11 furlongs but with a decent stamina? Hey, this looks like an obvious alternative yet you don't see very often such a change. Why?

Jorge wrote:Why so few mares on Steeplechase races? Would you consider racing an ordinary mare on these type of races after proving that she is too slow for 11 furlongs but with a decent stamina? Hey, this looks like an obvious alternative yet you don't see very often such a change. Why?

Unlike the UK, Ireland, or France, there is very little market for breeding chasers in the US. Mares who have good stamina and jump get marketed as sporthorse prospects or sporthorse broodmares.

As always, geldings have no future in the breeding shed, so they make money on the track (or the course).

Oh, I must explain a little more the angle I would like to explore on this topic.

Many mares race three or four races without showing much talent and after that they are simply discarded as broodmare prospects simply because "she was a bad runner". In some lucky instances, if the mare has a good pedigree she goes to the breeding shed, yet her chances at mating a decent good sire are very slim, unless, against many odds, she ultimately manages to get a decent runner by "Mr Nobody". I wonder how many of these mares, if they would have been raced as a steeplechase runner would have shown stamina brilliance as to be worth ascending the ranks and being bred to a top-notch stallion. Something like a female version of Princequillo. That's the angle I would like to explore and read about specific cases.

The number of races run by the NSA is limited and confined to spring and fall. There are more than enough geldings in training to fill those races and for the most part SC trainers prefer not to deal with fillies and mares. Hormonal, I suspect. The mares being hormonal, not the trainers, of course. With the exception of a few stellar races like U. S. Grand National and the Gold Cup, steeplechasing is on the decline. Sarotoga and a few other tracks do include SC races in their meets, but that's about it. Bet you don't see many SC races west of the MS River. I'd been surprised if you see any outside the eastern seaboard.

Ken Ramsey, when he accepted the Steeplechase Eclipse award in 2010 made the point to invite owners and trainers that had failed flat horses to send them to SC. I forget the name of his horse, but he stated that his experiences with SC were just great.

I believe the problem of the unwanted OTTB can be helped by keeping TB racehorses on the track and one of those options is steeplechasing. Unfortunately, there is little or no money to be won and most owner's are affluent and rich enough to make a hobby of it.

This is a great subject.

I'm a big fan of SC and Pt2Pt. The problem is that there is no pari-mutuel connection and most meets are only a day. It really becomes a day in the country for attendees who for the most part like the social aspect but know very little about the racing and the horses.

If you are interested, Aintree is being televised on HRTV. You won't see many, if not any, distaff races.

return on investment is much faster when you wank them from training after a few bummer races, get them in foal, and unloading at a breeding stock sale. Rather then put them in training with a jump trainer and possibly have her run a few more lackluster races before throwing in the towel. -Which is much more likely than finding the next female Princequillo.

Crystal wrote:return on investment is much faster when you wank them from training after a few bummer races, get them in foal, and unloading at a breeding stock sale. Rather then put them in training with a jump trainer and possibly have her run a few more lackluster races before throwing in the towel. -Which is much more likely than finding the next female Princequillo.

Seriosly Crystal What have you got on your mind?????????

Go get Bast and get a lesson off her on proof reading?

yikes, seriously!!

Crystal: You need to trademark "wank." Charlie Sheen is doing that with all of his bizarre remarks. I think he is calling them "Sheenisms." You can call "wank" your first "Crystalization."

Shammy Davis wrote:Crystal: You need to trademark "wank." Charlie Sheen is doing that with all of his bizarre remarks. I think he is calling them "Sheenisms." You can call "wank" your first "Crystalization."

Shammy you do know what a wank is?

And calling it a Crystalization.....

Shammy Davis wrote: I believe the problem of the unwanted OTTB can be helped by keeping TB racehorses on the track and one of those options is steeplechasing. Unfortunately, there is little or no money to be won and most owner's are affluent and rich enough to make a hobby of it.

This is a great subject.

Seems like the time has come to analyze steeplechase racing, particularly mares, and the whole paradigm.

Dublino posted:

Shammy you do know what a wank is?

And calling it a Crystalization.....

To be honest, I didn't. I apologize to Crystal. I simply thought that she keyed a "w" for "y". I should have checked. It appears it is slang that I would not come across in most rural environs. My joke was a flop, but it wasn't the first time one of my jokes has flopped. I'm going right out and get a current slang dictionary. That being said, only you, Dubs, would take a thread from seriously discussing the distaff role in steeplechasing to thoughts of human genital manipulation. I guess that's where your head is most of the time so I'm not surprised.

Shammy a bit harsh, but hey you have learned something new today -who says an old dog can't learn new tricks.

Back on topic - before I get a slap on the wrist.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... n-training

Jorge: You may remember the gelding RESEARCHER who won the WV Classic last year. After his original owner's death, Kinross Racing bought him and put him in chase training with Neil Morris. As the above article shows, even if you move a horse from the flat, even the really good ones like RESEARCHER, it doesn't necessarily mean you can make a chaser out of him/her.

As I recall, back in the 60's there was a book (actually three volumes that I'm sure is out of print) published that detailed chase heritability among other disciplines. Based on stallions and not mares, it made the heritable sire connections, but I think you are correct that we should be looking at the distaff side, particularly mares that ran at distance on the turf. Actually mare performance as chasers would be a good breeding guage. As NSA has no good research programs and the JC appears to have no interest, it is unlikely that breeding programs for chasers will be based on anything more than guessing.

you boys, my goodness!

Yes, it was a misspelling of yank to wank.. did not mean to be as funny as it was, and it still makes me laugh!!

Happy Friday Dub- how are you?

Sham- my Crystalizations need work don't they? A friend of mine thought I coined the term "Sheen-ius".. which I would have used more often if his shows weren't so 50/50. Which I guess agains back to not bi-polar just bi-winning. LOL How ya feeling?

I promise not to hyjack yet another thread as I have done it far to often this week. I will think about what I have done while drinking at lunch over at keeneland..

Crystal wrote:Happy Friday Dub- how are you?

Good my dear, glad to see you in such high spirits, or consuming spirits!

This must be a record of consecutives Fridays without a rant?