I just heard that GC's stud fee was increased to $200,000. Wow, for a stallion whose oldest runners are 3 years old. this is excessive. Currently the stud fee situation reminds me of the mid-80's when many horses (most in first few years of stud duty) stood for stud fees , which should have been many times lower (Devils Bag $200,000, Spectacular Bid $225,000) Others horses worth being at the top of the list were still over priced (Seattle Slew $750,000, Alydar $450,000, Northern Dancer $1,000,000).
I don't know what drives this madness but it is not preformance.
Giant's Causeway stud fee boost
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Ashford has been listing him at 200K in ads for about a month now though, like the last boost (to 150K a couple of months ago) this seems to me to be more of a PR ploy than an actual stud fee increase.
It's April, for Pete's sake. Isn't almost everybody who's planning to breed this year already booked (at the lower price)?
Much as I have always liked Giant's Causeway, at this moment in his career, I wouldn't dream of paying 200K to breed to him.
It's April, for Pete's sake. Isn't almost everybody who's planning to breed this year already booked (at the lower price)?
Much as I have always liked Giant's Causeway, at this moment in his career, I wouldn't dream of paying 200K to breed to him.
I guess they are playing on the Noble Causeway card... and setting up for next year... sometimes there are people who get caught up in the fever so if they can get a couple of bookings "out of" Noble Causeway fans right now, they can cash those contracts next year... It is not what the published fee is at the time the foal is born, it is the amount of the fee on the contract.... you can fool some of the people some of the time. 
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
hi LSB...hi madelyn...hello Khaled
LSB...you wrote re: the stud fee increase of Giant's Causeway to $200k "...like the last boost (to 150K a couple of months ago) this seems to me to be more of a PR ploy than an actual stud fee increase."
I couldn't agree more with your evaluation. You've heard of a work-in-progress? I suggest that we are witnessing (with our eyes wide open) a charade-in-progress.
I suggest that Ashford isn't fooling anyone with their action...but maybe madelyn is correct...she wrote "you can fool some of the people some of the time."
And Khaled wrote "I don't know what drives this madness but it is not performance."
Do I sense a pattern here?
Respectfully
LSB...you wrote re: the stud fee increase of Giant's Causeway to $200k "...like the last boost (to 150K a couple of months ago) this seems to me to be more of a PR ploy than an actual stud fee increase."
I couldn't agree more with your evaluation. You've heard of a work-in-progress? I suggest that we are witnessing (with our eyes wide open) a charade-in-progress.
I suggest that Ashford isn't fooling anyone with their action...but maybe madelyn is correct...she wrote "you can fool some of the people some of the time."
And Khaled wrote "I don't know what drives this madness but it is not performance."
Do I sense a pattern here?
Respectfully
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louis finochio
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I believe they raised up his fee to cut down on FP mares. As this raise will be to steep of a raise for many breeders.
When you breed as many mares to FP as he has been servicing, FP will soon be burned out. The word here is greed, as his connectiions are willing to sacrifice FP for the almighty $.
When you breed as many mares to FP as he has been servicing, FP will soon be burned out. The word here is greed, as his connectiions are willing to sacrifice FP for the almighty $.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
hi Mike ... hi Flight
If both Fusaichi Pegasus and Giant's Causeway "are both standing for $77k this coming season in Oz" (as Flight wrote)...am I correct in assuming that's $77k Australian?
Can you possibly imagine paying (right now) US$200k PLUS 6% Ky sales tax to breed to GC (for a northern hemisphere stud fee plus required sales tax totaling $212,000) ?
Thoughts?
Mike...how are your Giant's Causeways evolving?
Respectfully
If both Fusaichi Pegasus and Giant's Causeway "are both standing for $77k this coming season in Oz" (as Flight wrote)...am I correct in assuming that's $77k Australian?
Can you possibly imagine paying (right now) US$200k PLUS 6% Ky sales tax to breed to GC (for a northern hemisphere stud fee plus required sales tax totaling $212,000) ?
Thoughts?
Mike...how are your Giant's Causeways evolving?
Respectfully
Hi FOS
The $77k would equate to about $60kUS. The $77k includes 10% tax.
The GC is fine FOS. IF anything she is a little on the small side but she is a first foal. Hopefully the mares next effort will be bigger. Although the filly is small, she is very correct and shows a lot of determination. I would bet that if we didn't handle her correctly she could be hard work as she's no push over.
The $77k would equate to about $60kUS. The $77k includes 10% tax.
The GC is fine FOS. IF anything she is a little on the small side but she is a first foal. Hopefully the mares next effort will be bigger. Although the filly is small, she is very correct and shows a lot of determination. I would bet that if we didn't handle her correctly she could be hard work as she's no push over.
hi Mike
Thanks for the update and info. Have you named the filly yet?
Do you find she takes more after her dam or her sire?
My experience is that most of the Giant's Causway's that I've been around tend to be a bit on the slight side...regardless of the size of their dams.
Based on what I've seen...I suggest that mares with PLENTY of size...bone and substance might increase the chances for a good-sized and robust GC...but I have my doubts (as you know) even then. It seems to me that much of what I'm seeing is Rahy-like. It seems to me that in the case of GC he may have taken on more of his dam's sire (Rahy) that his own sire.
Thinking back to the last time I saw Mariah's Storm...when she was actually carrying Giant's Causeway at the Keeneland sale...I remember how much I liked her as a sturdy...little powerhouse, that looked like she was carrying a pick-up truck.
I suspect that her sire Rahy (a diminutive LITTLE horse whose size has arguably posed a difficult obstacle for many breeders to overcome) has come through to a large degree in Giant's Causeway. And that size-thing may be a difficult obstacle for GC to overcome also...in the big picture.
Regardless of opinions...theories...whatever...I certainly hope that Australia will be fertile territory for his offspring to succeed at the races...and hopefully yours will prove to be quite special.
Best to you...and good fortune with your GCs.
Respectfully
Thanks for the update and info. Have you named the filly yet?
Do you find she takes more after her dam or her sire?
My experience is that most of the Giant's Causway's that I've been around tend to be a bit on the slight side...regardless of the size of their dams.
Based on what I've seen...I suggest that mares with PLENTY of size...bone and substance might increase the chances for a good-sized and robust GC...but I have my doubts (as you know) even then. It seems to me that much of what I'm seeing is Rahy-like. It seems to me that in the case of GC he may have taken on more of his dam's sire (Rahy) that his own sire.
Thinking back to the last time I saw Mariah's Storm...when she was actually carrying Giant's Causeway at the Keeneland sale...I remember how much I liked her as a sturdy...little powerhouse, that looked like she was carrying a pick-up truck.
I suspect that her sire Rahy (a diminutive LITTLE horse whose size has arguably posed a difficult obstacle for many breeders to overcome) has come through to a large degree in Giant's Causeway. And that size-thing may be a difficult obstacle for GC to overcome also...in the big picture.
Regardless of opinions...theories...whatever...I certainly hope that Australia will be fertile territory for his offspring to succeed at the races...and hopefully yours will prove to be quite special.
Best to you...and good fortune with your GCs.
Respectfully
Hi Fos
I'll know more when I get the second foal out of the mare later this year,about October. I suspect that you could be right. Most that I saw at the sales this year were not big, but that does not matter if they're good. They had enough bone though and I would not have called them slight, although again there were some! Small does matter in the sales ring though.
The prices at the Sydney Easter were not outstanding for him and for his price, it could be said that he sold disappointingly, considering that they were his best types for the year. He would need to do something early down here or they'll write him off.
There has been a strong move to locally bred and performed individuals. The current flavour of the day is Redoute's Choice. He is leaving them like there's no tomorrow. His fee has just gone to $220k from $44k. Way out of my range now and way out of the range where profit can be thought about for most! Great horse though.
I'll know more when I get the second foal out of the mare later this year,about October. I suspect that you could be right. Most that I saw at the sales this year were not big, but that does not matter if they're good. They had enough bone though and I would not have called them slight, although again there were some! Small does matter in the sales ring though.
The prices at the Sydney Easter were not outstanding for him and for his price, it could be said that he sold disappointingly, considering that they were his best types for the year. He would need to do something early down here or they'll write him off.
There has been a strong move to locally bred and performed individuals. The current flavour of the day is Redoute's Choice. He is leaving them like there's no tomorrow. His fee has just gone to $220k from $44k. Way out of my range now and way out of the range where profit can be thought about for most! Great horse though.
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TBLADY
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No I cannot afford to breed to GC, so I have deceided to breed to a full broth and yes to avoid the 6% sales tax in Ky I'll be headed to NY to Freud. With the added money on GC fee how do you think this will effect the books of the full brothers Freud, Roar of the Tiger and Tumblebrutus?
From the sales figures at OBS Calder, Freud seems to be fairly well received. Is this a fluke? was our market jumping the Gun?
From the sales figures at OBS Calder, Freud seems to be fairly well received. Is this a fluke? was our market jumping the Gun?
Fins to the Left....
hi TBLady
You ask "With the added money on GC fee how do you think this will effect the books of the full brothers Freud, Roar of the Tiger and Tumblebrutus?"
I expect little or no affect whatsoever (at this time)...at least on Freud and Roar of the Tiger.
Can't offer much about Tumblebrutus (although he appears to be tall, upright and quite light...in photos I've seen...maybe even gawky is an appropriate description)...hmmm. He may need a lot more help than Freud and Roar of the Tiger need right now.
As for Roar of the Tiger...he has apparently been well received (and was syndicated for $15k per share...and every share that was available was apparently sold). He's a very big...strong...powerhouse of a horse with a lot of bone. In the flesh I could not describe him as particularly graceful or athletic-looking...but solid as they come. Physically (other than being chestnuts) ROTC and GC seem to have nothing...zero...nada in common. They're so different that I suggest that it might be nothing short of a stroke-of-luck if they would be guessed as full-brothers.
Freud on the other hand is on the verge of his debut as a racehorse sire. And as a result of some quality looking two year-olds that worked well on the dirt (and looked good doing it) at the sales...some serious buyers reached in (and a number of the Freuds sold very well). I suggest that some of the Freud's (particularly those at the select 2-year-old sales) have made a solid impact on how he is currently perceived.
Now the final hurdle...at what level will the Freuds get it done at the racetrack? If he can come out with a very nice one (or more) that captures the imagination...he may prove to be a very wise stallion selection.
I suggest that Freud's in good hands...and has been offered an excellent opportunity...
...good luck to you.
I sense you might have made a very good selection.
Respectfully
You ask "With the added money on GC fee how do you think this will effect the books of the full brothers Freud, Roar of the Tiger and Tumblebrutus?"
I expect little or no affect whatsoever (at this time)...at least on Freud and Roar of the Tiger.
Can't offer much about Tumblebrutus (although he appears to be tall, upright and quite light...in photos I've seen...maybe even gawky is an appropriate description)...hmmm. He may need a lot more help than Freud and Roar of the Tiger need right now.
As for Roar of the Tiger...he has apparently been well received (and was syndicated for $15k per share...and every share that was available was apparently sold). He's a very big...strong...powerhouse of a horse with a lot of bone. In the flesh I could not describe him as particularly graceful or athletic-looking...but solid as they come. Physically (other than being chestnuts) ROTC and GC seem to have nothing...zero...nada in common. They're so different that I suggest that it might be nothing short of a stroke-of-luck if they would be guessed as full-brothers.
Freud on the other hand is on the verge of his debut as a racehorse sire. And as a result of some quality looking two year-olds that worked well on the dirt (and looked good doing it) at the sales...some serious buyers reached in (and a number of the Freuds sold very well). I suggest that some of the Freud's (particularly those at the select 2-year-old sales) have made a solid impact on how he is currently perceived.
Now the final hurdle...at what level will the Freuds get it done at the racetrack? If he can come out with a very nice one (or more) that captures the imagination...he may prove to be a very wise stallion selection.
I suggest that Freud's in good hands...and has been offered an excellent opportunity...
...good luck to you.
I sense you might have made a very good selection.
Respectfully
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TBLADY
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FOS thanks for your insight. I submitted my mare who lacks any ND in her pedigree. But does offer us Nearctic through Explodent. She was purchased to breed to out The Minstrel Stallion but with his age quckly advancing we just thought this season we would look at a more commercial stallion. Since we are small tim breeders and our mare is NOT Blueblood we knew paying full price for a stud fee would be in our futures and felt $5000 was a nice market for her. Imust ahve run 50 nicking reports and low and behold she was an A+ nick to GC...so insearch of his full brothers we went. Landing on Freud we look forward to 2006...that is IF our 2005 ever comes!
Fins to the Left....