Jorge...Who is the best grey stallion standing in florida...

[StealingKat]

I am just wondering who the best grey stallion standing in florida is at this time:)

Judith

[chicago78]

I would say Macho Uno is the best gray stallion in Florida. He won the Breeders Cup Juvenile, and went on to be a pretty good horse at 3 and 4, winning the Pennsylvania Derby and Mass Handicap. And he comes from a very good female family, as he's the half brother to Awesome Again. I think he is the best stallion prospect in the state of Florida in many years, no matter what color he is. The funny thing is that we bred a big, good looking gray mare to him, and got a chestnut filly this winter. She is correct though, so I won't complain.

[FOS]

hi chicago78

You surprise me a bit with your comment "I think he is the best stallion prospect in the state of Florida in many years, no matter what color he is."

Arguably...he may be "the best gray stallion in Florida" (your words)...but I respectfully disagree with your evaluation of him as "the best stallion prospect in the state of Florida in many years, no matter what color he is." But granted...he certainly is interesting...and does have some appeal.

Yes Macho Uno was a champion two-year-old...and yes he's got one heck of a female family...but what about Holy Bull...his sire? I suggest that's a VERY weak link...at least as a potential sire-of-sires.

Despite that...Macho Uno may be just fine...and I believe he is perfectly placed in Florida. But it's probably unwise to ignore the fact that (as an individual) MU is VERY narrow (thru his chest). It might be important to consider that physical characteristic when selecting an appropriate mare for him.

Getting back to StealingKat's original question "who the best grey stallion standing in florida at this time"...I've seen a number of OUTSTANDING (some extremely well-muscled) foals by the young gray Florida-based stallion Unbridled Time (but in fairness...I've also seen a few not-so-good ones, but isn't that usually par for the course). But UT stands for $5k...vs Macho Uno at $15k...regardless UT has had a large dose of very good support (and has been bred to some VERY nice mares) and could be a sleeper (if that's a fair description). Unbridled Time certainly was not the accomplished race horse that G1 Breeders' Cup Juvenile winner Macho Uno was, not even close (although he was a mutiple stakes winner of $341k...and won the WHAS at Churchill...early)...but he clearly had ability and has some wonderful broodmare-sire names on his female side. For starters he's out of a Halo...that's out of a Hoist the Flag...that's out of an Olden Times...hmmm. And it may be fair to say that he's a rare son of Unbridled's Song in that he made 24 starts (many of them after he was injured)...and he was a $1.1 mil yearling...which may be an indicater of what he looks like in general (among other things).

Knowing that Macho Uno will have a big opportunity (if for no other reason because of the Adena/Stronach connection)...it's difficult to ignore the opportunities which may benefit and/or favor him. But I find Holy Bull as an important sire-of-sires difficult to imagine (but time will tell)...although clearly Macho Uno is out of one-heck-of-a-mare and he is a half bro to Awesome Again...impressive.

But Holy Bull...hmmm.

Best to you.

Respectfully

[halo]

Yes Macho Uno was a champion two-year-old...and yes he's got one heck of a female family...but what about Holy Bull...his sire? I suggest that's a VERY weak link...at least as a potential sire-of-sires. >>

Im sure you said the very same thing about Is It True as a sire of sires, correct?

[FOS]

hi halo

You quoted "Yes Macho Uno was a champion two-year-old...and yes he's got one heck of a female family...but what about Holy Bull...his sire? I suggest that's a VERY weak link...at least as a potential sire-of-sires."

You asked "Im sure you said the very same thing about Is It True as a sire of sires, correct?"

I suggest that Is It True was a very weak link (as a sire of sires)...but in the evaluation process All Things must be Considered. When I saw Yes It's True (up close and personal) it was clear that he was EXCEPTIONAL (maybe an understatement)...a very rare and spectacular individual. He was FAR SUPERIOR to his sire...and nearly flawless in his structure...from any angle etc etc etc. He might be considered a prototype thoroughbred by some. I suggest he was an aberration's aberration...WOW WOW WOW !!! I recommended him strongly...despite his sire.

This game is certainly not an exact science...if it were we'd be dealing with certainties...not possibilities and probabilities. But when I first saw Yes It's True he IMMEDIATELY moved from the possible category to the probable category. He was that special...a WOW WOW WOW horse.

If Macho Uno (by Holy Bull) was the exceptional individual that Yes It's True is...I probably would have recommended him...despite being by such a questionable (at least the way I see it) potential sire-of-sires. But that was not the case...Macho Uno is (among other things) very narrow...and I expect he will NOT get the abundance of sensational individuals that Yes It's True does...regularly. But that is not to say that MU will not have success.

For what it's worth...I suggest that the same weak-link/potential sire-of-sires premise could be (or could have been) used re: Congaree and his sire Arazi...and High Fly and his sire Atticus...and Cigar and his sire Palace Music...and Charismatic and his sire Summer Squall etc etc etc. And if John Henry had been a full horse and retired to stud I would not have liked his chances for success for a number of reasons...not the least of which is the fact that he is by Ole Bob Bowers...to my way of thinking a VERY weak link as a potential sire-of-sires.

I stand by my original comments...including "Knowing that Macho Uno will have a big opportunity (if for no other reason because of the Adena/Stronach connection)...it's difficult to ignore the opportunities which may benefit and/or favor him. But I find Holy Bull as an important sire-of-sires difficult to imagine (but time will tell)...although clearly Macho Uno is out of one-heck-of-a-mare and he is a half bro to Awesome Again...impressive."

Macho Uno might be fine (who knows he might be great)...but a couple of things about him tend to leave me uninspired...unenthusiastic.

Good luck to him.

Best to you.

Respectfully

[halo]

What was that you said about Holy Bull again??

[Jessi P]

So Halo, are you saying you kinda like Holy Bull??

Guess he ain't bad, esp if you like sires of Kentucky Derby winners!!!

[Ruffian]

LOL I see Holy Bull becoming at least a highly paid sire of sires

[FOS]

hi halo

I wrote LOUD and CLEAR "...I find Holy Bull as an important sire-of-sires difficult to imagine (but time will tell)..."

Holy Bull is 14 years old...his first three crops are seven, eight and nine years old. Has he sired even one successful sire?

Respectfully







Respectfully

[Mahubah]

Among stallions with foals already to race, the grays Slew Gin Fizz and Concorde's Tune both have something to offer at reasonable prices. SGF sired a number of good runners in South America and I believe was among the leading 2yo sires by number of winners last year with his first North American crop. His South American progeny generally seemed to do better at three than at two, so we'll see how he progresses this year. He stands for $5,000. Concorde's Tune is a very nice bread-and-butter sire who doesn't have any "name" horses to his credit but has gotten 13 SWs and 58% winners from indifferent mares -- he averages over $61,000 in earnings per starter, and he doesn't have one or two big earners skewing his figures. He stands for $3,000.

[chicago78]

What I like about Macho Uno is that he is a Breeders Cup Juvenile winner and half brother to Awesome Again, a top sire in the US right now. I thougt Holy Bull was a good sire before saturday, and obviously still do. And would have no hesitation to breed to one of his sons if it fit the mare correctly. We have bred some mares to him with Relaunch in their pedigrees, to inbreed to The Axe, which we have had success with. Holy Bull is an outcross to most American broodmares, with no Northern Dancer, Mr. Prospector, or even Hail to Reason anywhere in the pedigree.

[Mahubah]

So far, Holy Bull seems to do best with mares that are a complete outcross to him -- fully 75% of his SWs (including 8 of his 9 GSWs) are outcrossed within five generations, and where inbreeding does occur, it isn't to the names you might expect. Doubling up on The Axe and/or Intentionally doesn't seem to have been particularly successful. Holy Bull works nicely with Northern Dancer, seems to do all right with Mr. P and HTR, and doesn't like Bold Ruler much except through Seattle Slew. Tyrant seems to be another exception to the "doesn't like Bold Ruler" bit; he's relatively rare, yet appears in two of Holy Bull's SWs including Giacomo.

[chicago78]

Mahubah, it makes sense that most of his top runners are outcrosses, because he's an outcross to 90% of the mares in Kentucky. We have had success in the past with inbreeding to The Axe, so we've tried to do it a few times through Holy Bull. No success yet, but we have a two year old colt by him with the inbreeding to The Axe named School Bully that looks okay so far. Have my fingers crossed for sure.

[Mahubah]

Mayhap, but Holy Bull/In Realitydoesn't seem to work too well even though it looks like a natural nick. It I got my counts right, there's 21 of them in the database with Holy Bull as sire and a daughter of In Reality or of one of his sons or daughters as dam, and only eight won; one was a very minor SW. I'm sure this is nowhere near a complete sample, but what there is in the DB doesn't look promising.

Best of luck with your colt regardless.

[roving boy]

I will second Mahubah's mention of Slew Gin Fizz - a horse that I had never thought twice about until seeing his yearlings. If they run like they look, he will be all right.