Pedigree Query

Dear sirs: I recently read the article written by Steve Miller about the recent incorporation of Ela Mana Mou as chef de race and the influence of that measure to the dosage index of many stake winners in Europe. I think as Mr. Miller does that the dosage system should be more "friendly" with Argentine stallions and include Cipayo and Good Manners in that list. Both, I believe, should be included in two aptitudinal groups each: Cipayo in the classic and Professional groups and Good Manners as his father Nashua in the intermidiate and classics groups. Thank you.

Good Manners would have my vote (not that I have actually have one). He seems to be an exceptional sire.

Good Manners was a KY bred. Is the Chef de Race list biased against stallions that stand in foreign countries?

Laurie

It would seem so Zialand. Very few stallions outside of England, France,
Ireland and the US seem to make it as a chef de race.
With shuttle stallions being more than norm nowadays, that may change.

There should be a governing board in foreign countries to oversee the chefs that qualify of becoming the same.

Welcome, Eduardo. Glad to have you visit the forum.

Blast. I thought the old Albatros Bloodstock website had a listing of South American chefs, but it looks like the site's gone. What a bother.

louis finochio wrote:There should be a governing board in foreign countries to oversee the chefs that qualify of becoming the same.

I agree with you.

henthorn wrote:Welcome, Eduardo. Glad to have you visit the forum.

Thank you for your welcome.

louis finochio wrote:There should be a governing board in foreign countries to oversee the chefs that qualify of becoming the same.

Except y'all keep forgetting that the Dosage system is nothing but a money scheme for Roman and his personal fiefdom.

Bienvenidos to the Board Eduardo!


Mahubah - The old Albatross Bloodstock site did have a link to S. American pedigree information and I miss having it. Meanwhile - Here are the two sites I've found most helpful in identifying and tracing S. American bloodstock....sometimes you have to drill down a bit to find what you're looking for and many times I must summon what very little school girl spanish I know....but they are good sites"

For Argentian in particular -

http://monti.com/

For S. American bloodstock generally and Brazilian bloodstock in particular (this site is a truly amazing collection and organization of information)-

http://www.wwthoroughbred.com.br/

To Eduardo, welcome on this board, I hope you will enjoy it. You may see in future that you can learn a lot from everyone here and we can learn from you!
To Jellac: thanks a lot for the websites, thanks to you members I saved a list of websites of foreigh countries, which will come in hand I am sure.
Respectfully, Erin

Hi all,

Might I suggest that you assign your own aptitudinal groups to stallions you feel have passed on specific aptitude to their get and not wait for Dr. Roman to get around to it. It seems that many of his assignments are made to correct dosage on individuals that don't fit the parameters he had previously laid out.

I find dosage almost totally useless, but I do look at chef status and I have assigned aptitude for many stallions on my own. Nothing formal, just a mental note.

Eduardo, I've had Cipayo as a C/P for some time but never assigned Good Manners, so I'll accept your I/C. Actually, Dr. Franco Varola might not have assigned Good Manners even if he felt it was warranted because the assignment would normally be made if the son's aptitude was different from the father.

Regards,

Pete

Welcome Eduardo. We are seeing more and more South American horses at our meets. Your presence is an opportunity for us all. I've been doing some research on South American foundation lines. I'm very interested in what you have to tell us. I agree with Pete and cynical SAM . I think dosage is the rather arbitrary machinations of one man to make money. I've got a little formula that I use that includes both chefs and reines in a particular pedigree. Like dosage, as you go back in the pedigree, you have declining values except when you have blue hens in series of 3 or more. When it comes to the global stallion market, there has to be a valid basis to determine stallion potential and progeny value. Fashion and whim just doesn't do it. I visited the wwthoroughbred.com site and was very impressed. I like the format. Welcome again. Best wishes

As far as I have understood Franco Varola, his “chef-de-race”-concept is an open system. So everybody is free to declare his own “chef-de-race” sires and put them in his personal calculations. Varola even invites to such a procedure. In Germany, we are in a quit similar situation as in South America; there are some useful sires, who even gain importance in European racing and breeding (i. e. Acatenango, Monsun, Big Shuffle). But up to now they don’t appear in an “official” “chef-de-race”-classification, although they offer a fine outcross-opportunity to ND-based-pedigrees.

Apart from Steve Roman – is there any scientifically based study whether a large number of “chef-de-race” sires in a pedigree of a horse improves his breeding success? Up to now I haven’t found anything in that direction.

erins isle wrote:To Eduardo, welcome on this board, I hope you will enjoy it. You may see in future that you can learn a lot from everyone here and we can learn from you!
To Jellac: thanks a lot for the websites, thanks to you members I saved a list of websites of foreigh countries, which will come in hand I am sure.
Respectfully, Margreet

thanks for your welcome