Pedigree Query

Thoughts on him as a stallion prospect & for those who have seen them how does he differ & how is he alike to full bros Budroyal & Tiznow? Thanks

I have seen Tizbud but not his brothers, so I cannot really comment on similarities and differences between him and his brothers. I saw him at Jubilee Farm earlier this year and was really struck by him. He is 16.3 (an accurate measurement, I would say, judging by how he compared to my own height), and while he of course had not filled out when I saw him, being fresh from the track, he looked a very elegant, symmetrical animal of beautiful Thoroughbred type. He seemed to be slightly taller than he was long, appeared to have a medium bone frame for his size, and had medium-sized feet that at least to my eyes seemed well shaped. He had an attractive walk despite having an unattractive lump on one shin where his handler told me that pins had been inserted; apparently the shin soreness that repeatedly hampered his racing career was a bit more than recurrent bucked shins. Generally, he looked fairly correct to me (take that with a grain of salt as I'm not a conformation expert), but the most striking thing about him was how the total package filled the eye with the impression of athletic balance. He had very nice manners, too -- if this guy doesn't make it as a racing sire, I wouldn't be surprised to see him make a popular sire of show and sport horses. After looking at him, I think he might have liked a distance on turf and might also have fared better in the East, where the tracks usually have a bit more cushion than in California, but that's all speculation now.

TomFool: I didn't see any of them In reality, I mean... However, Cee's Song dynasty are my favourites and Tiznow was my big love. I remember time when Tizbud was starting racing, his first races. All I can say - tall, leggy, elegant. Resembles Tiznow in some ways, mainly in his look, although he was classes below him. Unfortunately... Budroyale was a bit different type of horse... don't know whether because he was gelded or why, but was. He wasn't so dark brown as those three, Tiznow, Bud and Tizdubai. He also wasn't so elegant, had not so many muscles, not so good conformation, he was... well, don't know how to describe, but first thing that come to my mind is "little gelding"
Tizdubai was another type of horse, she hadn't that "kind spirit" around her. She looked like strictly professional racehorse... If you remember Tiznow you know what I mean, he always had some expression on his face... Bud too... they simply didn't look so sharp. Tizdubai did, she was real racer... and she had beautiful stride, I remember that her first pictures were breathtaking.
So... they four weren't completely the same horses. Tizbud was the least successful racehorse, but he was probably most elegant. I didn't see his conformation picture, but I'd love to see, because I consider Tiznow to have one of the best conformations I've ever seen... However, I suppose Tizbud won't be better than his brother in this way. But he certainly was very nice horse to look.

My own feeling about Tizbud after seeing the way that leg had been done is that we never really got to see how good he could have been -- I now doubt that he was ever 100% on the racetrack. I doubt he had the raw talent Tiznow did, but without the injuries, I certainly think he could have been a graded winner. The question for breeders is whether this represents an inherited fragility or whether it is simply a case of a very slow-maturing horse (have to remember the family history here) getting hurt early in his career due to not quite being mature enough to handle what was asked of him and never getting the time he needed to be completely healed. If I were in a position to breed to him, I would tend to err on the side of caution and send him mares who were both earlier maturing and had good bone and soundness. I wouldn't send him one of those very feminine light-boned mares, but he could be a very good choice for adding some refinement to a coarse mare without losing too much bone.

Saintly, you mentioned facial expressions -- Tizbud had the most charming look when I saw him, alert and interested without being high strung and with full, bright, well spaced eyes. He certainly looked young; I wouldn't have guessed him as a six-year-old if I hadn't known his true age.

I feel that in the Florida stallion market, he is probably somewhat overpriced for his first year, mostly on the strength of Tiznow's accomplishments; after all, we have several useful proven sires here that stood for $5000 or less in 2005 and, if they won't get you Superhorse, will at least get you a racehorse. $3500 would have seemed more like it to me. If Tiznow has a good first year, though, I expect a lot of people will think $5000 is pretty reasonable. If Tizbud can throw good looking foals, he may also represent decent value for the sales market in this region. We'll see, but I'd sure like to see him do well.

Mahubah, that question of maturing... I don't think it's that bad in this family. Well, Tiznow started as 3yo, somewhen in spring... but Budroyale was on the scene early in his 3yo season and Tizdubai was really classy two year old.
And after I saw some Tiznow's foals, I wouldn't be afraid of it... Not too much... What I've seen, most of Tiznow's foals are bred to get the distance, they don't have too much additional speed from their dams' side... And you can see those foals beautifully moving on the sales, and running very nicely and quickly... and that filly, Folklore, is really fast... Has some speed there, I know, but still, she surprised me... As well as the fact Tiznow has first winner so early... I expected that Tiznow will start in the summer or fall. And you see... However, you can't go bad with speed in this family, I have to agree
And his leg... I can only believe what you are writing, and I would probably agree - he certainly had some talent... Not to be champion, but at least good horse. Now it seems Tiznow is starting very well, I'm really impressed by his foals... so I hope it'll bring good luck to Tizbud.

I don't believe Tiznow made his first start until June of his 3yo season. Just looking at the other Cee's Tizzy-Cee's Song foals:

Ceebett (1992c) -- winless in 6 starts. Did not start at two.

Budroyale (1993g) -- Won once and placed once in two starts at two, but did not begin to reach his best for until age 5. A G2 winner at ages 5, 6, and 7.

Balboa Betty (1994f) -- Unplaced in two starts at two. At three and four, went 13-1-5-3.

Tizso (1995f) -- Unplaced in two starts; did not start at two.

Tiznow (1997c) -- Unraced at 2, HOY at 3, champion older male at 4.

Tizsweet (1998f) -- Ran 3rd in her only start, this as a 2yo.

Tizbud (1999c) -- Did not start until late summer of 3yo year if I remember right (his placing in the G2 San Fernando Handicap as an early 4yo was, I think, only his 3rd lifetime start). SW at four.

Tizdubai (2001f) -- Only one of the bunch besides Budroyale to win at two, and the only one that could be described as precocious -- and she got hurt after winning the Sorrento (G2).

Tizamazing (2002f) -- Unraced as of 12/31/04.

As a group, this just isn't a bunch that showed much precocity. Maybe Tizdubai was just unlucky to get hurt, but it could have been a case of the speed maturing before the bone frame did, too.

Mahubah: April 22 I remember I was asking about it at several forums, and this was an answer. I don't have full result, unfortunately, but I know it was very fast race, five furlongs in 0:56... Winner - Mr. Wonderful. Just as curiosity. Also I remember that at the time he ran in his first group race, and it was at the beginning of summer I think, he already had some two or three starts behind him... Yes, two, this one and another one on May 31, I just found it. And another curiosity, I remember some words of Jay Robbins, which he said to his wife in Santa Anita in spring 2000: "Keep your fingers crossed, I thing we've got the best three-year-old in America and nobody knows it..." I remember those words from the first time I've read them
And don't forget, both Tiznow and Tizbud were injured as 2yos, who knows how good they would be... Well, Tizbud probably not, but Tiznow could. And Bud defeated Grindstone in January... this is no important fact, I know, it could be pretty bad race, but he did. However, I agree he was classes better later in his career, naturally.
And if I remember correctly... one of their sisters, Tizso? produced two fillies, who were quite good... Tizalovelyday was one of them...
Well, it's not too early running family, but still nothing terrible... Cee's Tizzy was also in his peak form in the summer of his 3yo season...

Mahubah, don't wonder that I'm that optimistic. Right now we have one freshman stallion, from stayers' and steeplechasers' sireline, whose first foals finished one-two in one race two weeks ago... And one of them was pretty tall, really matured horse, wonderfully built - and his sire won only one important race as six year old... I couldn't believe it, but it happen. And this stallion with quite obscure pedigree produced much better foals than Red Ransom - Balinese, Nijinsky stallion, whose foals ran in the same race and finished last...
I would bet that Tiznow's foals will start running who knows when, and they are here right now. Tizbud probably will need little more time with his foals, but I don't think it will be too bad...

Both Tiznow and Tizbud will see a lot of mares from more precocious lines, so I don't think we'll have to wait for their four-year-olds to see if either can make a sire. I'm rooting for both!