Pedigree Query

@ saintlyCZ

The Czech Jockey Club has a marvellous web-site (www.dostihy.cz) – congratulations!

Some time ago we talked about Secret’n Classy, who came via Germany to the Czech Republic, where he is now doing as a sire. Bretigny came over to You from the Netherlands. The only German horse - as far as I now -, who is sire in Your country is the (German) Derby-winner Laroche, half-brother to famous Lando, now standing in a French stud. Are there still other German-bred sires in Czech Republic?

In the Slovakian Republic there are the German-bred horses Solarstern, Fabulous Eden, Fabriano, Duitor and Dark Marble at stud. Do You know something about them? Over here is not much heard about them in recent times.

parlo: I have to agree, Jockey Club website is simply great...
But to your questions.
First of all - no, I don't know almost anything about Slovakian sires. Honestly said, we don't know almost anything even about Slovakian racing. What a shame, but there's no way how to get informations (except some poor websites with poor informations)... Slovakian breeding scene is absolutely unknown for me
However, our stallions... You're right, Laroche is really here, in Mimon Stud. But he isn't only German-bred stallion here:
Curtino - chestnut 1992, Solo Dancer - Corsaria, Lombard. What I know about his racing career, very good steeplechaser. Private breeder, almost no chance.
Hankalo - dark bay 1993. Lomond - Hankaretta, Pirate's Bounty. Remember him racing, iron stayer with fantastic turn of foot... Not too cute, but sympathic. Has first two-year-olds now - running in late May! Can't understand So far they have some good placings only, but I think it's too soon for them. But they have a lot from Hankalo in their look... Very nice horses.
But... that's all right now. Our breeding is now little less orientated to Germany than it used to be, you probably now... Great horses like Fallada, Anno... Used to be. Now every listed horse from the west is welcomed like hero... Terrible
However, we have lots of German-bred horses racing, they and horses from Polland are everywhere... And those German aren't bad! If you would like to see complete lists of imported horses from Germany in last few years, I can send.
About those stallions in Slovakia... I'll try to ask my friend about it, she lives quite near to Slovakian border and she knows about Slovakian situation much more than me. Hopefully she will know where to get some info. Bye for now

@saintlyCZ:

Thank You for Your reply. To be honest I must search in the records because Curtino and Hankolo were unknown to me.

Curtino raced from 2 to 4yo on the flat (9 races, 1 win as a 3yo, official handicap-rating 59 kg, which is very low); in NH-sport he raced from 3 to 8 (21 races, 3 wins, official handicap-rating 82 kg as a 6yo, when he was 3rd in on of the most important steeplechases here – the Altes Badener Jagdrennen, LR).

Hankolo races from 3 to 8yo 47 times and won 13 races, with an official handicap-rating of 79 kg as a 5yo he was a good-class-handicapper; from 6yo he wasn’t trained in Germany and won 6 of his 13 races).

To compare the official German handicap-ratings of these horses: You need 95 kg = 110 lbs International Classification to be selected as a TB sire and 80 kg to be selected as a TB in the different “warm-blood” breeds here according to semi-legal regulations of the stud books.

So Curtino as well as Hankolo can’t be compared in racing class to horses like Laroche, Secret ‘n Classy, Your star-sire Rainbows to Life or the German horses which were imported and send to stud in Poland, Slovakia, Hungaria or Russia during recent years.

I try to observe the developments in the TB section of our Eastern neighbours for there are remarkable upswings. In our NH-sport, which is declining in class, Polish and Czech contenders are a power which must not be underestimated; and there a good buys of German-bred yearlings from Middle- and East-European owners and breeders. Your Pavel Vovcenko has remarkable success as a TB trainer here.

Parlo: don't forget that both horses were running also here in Czech Republic. Curtino won Paramo Gold Cup, if I remember correctly - top race of the year among classic steeplechase races. However, it's too little to put stallion into breeding shed, I know... But that's Czech breeding. I stopped to wonder some years ago...
And Hankalo raced here too, in Pardubice he won... what? flat Gold Cup? Doesn't matter; simply it was stayers race and I believe he won it two times. As I said, I remember it, and we were affraid of Hankalo like of no-one foreign horse I can remember... He was no match for our horses, and although we have no special criteria for our stallions (probably should be there, because what we sometimes breed, it's unbelievable ), he was rated above 90 kg I believe. Here, and as a stayer. Great horse, at least for us.
Yes, in comparsion to Laroche and Secret... nothing extra. Curtino is out of discussion, no-one true breeder would use him. And Hankalo... we'll see. I'd bet my head that horses by Magnus are going to run worst races, and now it looks he's potential stallion star... Now I'm gonna judge stallions after I see their foals.
And when you mentioned NH breeding... quite a pity it's only top horses we can breed... As every Czech racing fan, I'm very proud of our NH horses, but, you know - thoroughbred breeding should be something bit different...

parlo: I found list of this year's Slovakian stallions! Well, I'm quite proud of myself
There are two German-bred stallions there:
Aratikos, dkb 1991, Konigsstuhl - Aratika, Zino. 2. Grosser Preis der Continentale, Dortmund (Gr.2); Grosser Preis der Stadtsparkasse Dortmund, Dortmund (L); Derby-Revanche Hannover 1994, Hannover (NL), 3. BMW 125. Deutsches Derby (Gr.1); 61. Gerlings Preis, Kolín (Gr.2), 4. 124. Grosser Preis von Baden, Baden-Baden (Gr.1); 159. Zanders-Union-Rennen, Kolín (Gr.2); 24. Grosser Preis der Wirtschaft, Baden-Baden (Gr.2)

copied from the website, I don't have too much time right now...
picture: http://www.zavodisko.sk/_img/images10/aratikos.jpg

Second is Duitor, b 1991, 1. Jean Harzheim-Rennen, Kolín (L), 2. Preis der Privat-bankiers Merck, Finck and Co, Düsseldorf, (Gr.1); 159. Zanders-Union-Rennen, Kolín (Gr.2), 3. Grosser Preis der Stadtsparkasse Dortmund, Dortmund (L), 5. BMW 125. Deutsches Derby, Hamburg (Gr.1)
picture: http://www.zavodisko.sk/_img/images10/duitor.jpg

I don't know anything about them, I heard about them for the first time right now. But those pictures... well, I probably start to be more optimistic with Czech breeding...

@saintlyCZ: Thank You for Your reply. Just a few comments now – because of lack of time. Later perhaps more in case of interest.

Unfortunately the pictures given do no justice to the horses Aratikos and Duitor. Both were heavy backed horses for the German Derby of their years due to their form shown in the preliminary races. Aratikos was still a good but not exceptional four-year-old whereas Duitor didn’t train on after his start in the German Derby. Probably Aratikos was exported because there are some better horses by racing performance sired by Königsstuhl here.

As far as I know there are further horses bred or trained in Germany and now standing as sires in Slovakia:
Solarstern (winner of German 2000 Guineas and sire of Martessa, winner of Prix de l’Opera),
Fabriano (LR-winner and placed in Group-races),
Fabulous Eden (good sprinter, LR-winner in Germany who won Group-race in Italy),
Global Player and
Dark Marble (good handicapper).
All horses show fine pedigrees and with the exceptions of Fabulous Eden and Dark Marble they were qualified as sires in Germany as well.

You're right, but no-one from these horses is German-bred in fact - at least according to suffixes written in official list of Slovakian stallions.
I have to agree that almost all of them have quality pedigree, although I don't know almost anything about them... I have to leart it sometimes However, I saw Solarstern in one magazine six, seven years ago? Wonderful horse...
And BTW - great to know those two horses looked better at the time of their career... the pictures were really a nightmare

Hello saintlyCZ,

TBs get a suffix to their names according to the country where they actually were given birth. Thus when a mare goes to stud to a sire abroad and foals there before being covered by him, the foal gets a “country-suffix” independent of the nationality of the breeder. So the sires Solarstern und Global Player got their name-suffix although their breeders respectively were German. Nevertheless You are right: the other sires mentioned were bred abroad and imported to Germany for training and racing before being exported for stud duties.