Has anybody seen these stallions in person? Any thoughts?
Both are young stallions whose first crops are yearlings. One is a gr-1 winner and gr-1 placed, the other is a sw with multiple gr-3 placings. Both have very strong female families behind them.
Mongoose and Unbridled Time
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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Kimberly,
For what it's worth, Mongoose was recommended to me by a couple of people for one of my mares. I like his pedigree though I think it's a little heavy on Phalaris. I understand he's a nice looking stallion. No specifics on offsets, etc. I've heard conflicting reports on his temperament.
Laurie
For what it's worth, Mongoose was recommended to me by a couple of people for one of my mares. I like his pedigree though I think it's a little heavy on Phalaris. I understand he's a nice looking stallion. No specifics on offsets, etc. I've heard conflicting reports on his temperament.
Laurie
So many pedigrees...so little time. (C)
hi guys
Reality is that Unbridled Time (by Unbridled's Song) has been given a bigger opportunity in the breeding shed than has Mongoose (by Broad Brush). I expect it's a Broad Brush vs Unbridled's Song thing.
Make no mistake though...Mongoose was a VERY good (and G1 winning) race horse...winning at Saratoga, Belmont, and Gulfstream Park etc.
Unbridled Time did win the listed WHAS-11 Stakes at Churchill early (as a 2-yo), two more listed stakes (one at Thistle and one at River Downs) and an allowance race at Keeneland (as a four-year-old). UT earned one of his two G3 placings in the Oklahome Derby at Remington Park...arguably not a hot-bed of top class racing.
I suggest that Mongoose is a particularly athletic individual (especially for a Broad Brush)...with an extremely masculine thoroughbred physique and a no-nonsense confidence about him...that seems to fit him well.
I don't expect him to be a sales darling (at least not until he proves something). He's not marketed or promoted etc to help accomplish that...but it won't surprise me to see him come up with some VERY good race horses.
Unbridled Time's okay (in the flesh)...he's a good sized horse with adequate bone, balance and conformation...but he doesn't seem to capture the imagination (not mine anyway)...at least not yet. He's being offered a good opportunity and should at the very least have some degree of success.
From my perspective...Mongoose (over all) was a MUCH better race horse HANDS DOWN than Unbridled Time...and is arguably more horse in the flesh, and on the end of a leadshank (at least he leaves me with that impression).
Respectfully
Reality is that Unbridled Time (by Unbridled's Song) has been given a bigger opportunity in the breeding shed than has Mongoose (by Broad Brush). I expect it's a Broad Brush vs Unbridled's Song thing.
Make no mistake though...Mongoose was a VERY good (and G1 winning) race horse...winning at Saratoga, Belmont, and Gulfstream Park etc.
Unbridled Time did win the listed WHAS-11 Stakes at Churchill early (as a 2-yo), two more listed stakes (one at Thistle and one at River Downs) and an allowance race at Keeneland (as a four-year-old). UT earned one of his two G3 placings in the Oklahome Derby at Remington Park...arguably not a hot-bed of top class racing.
I suggest that Mongoose is a particularly athletic individual (especially for a Broad Brush)...with an extremely masculine thoroughbred physique and a no-nonsense confidence about him...that seems to fit him well.
I don't expect him to be a sales darling (at least not until he proves something). He's not marketed or promoted etc to help accomplish that...but it won't surprise me to see him come up with some VERY good race horses.
Unbridled Time's okay (in the flesh)...he's a good sized horse with adequate bone, balance and conformation...but he doesn't seem to capture the imagination (not mine anyway)...at least not yet. He's being offered a good opportunity and should at the very least have some degree of success.
From my perspective...Mongoose (over all) was a MUCH better race horse HANDS DOWN than Unbridled Time...and is arguably more horse in the flesh, and on the end of a leadshank (at least he leaves me with that impression).
Respectfully
I'm glad to hear your opinions on Mongoose, as there hasn't been much said about him and his sales figures haven't been great, to say the least...
I thought he looked as you described, so I'm glad it wasn't just the photo!
I really like his looks...
It'd be a nice opportunity for someone to take advantage of his "obscurity" and low stud fee before the chance that it could go up (if his foals start to do well on the track)...
I thought he looked as you described, so I'm glad it wasn't just the photo!
I really like his looks...
It'd be a nice opportunity for someone to take advantage of his "obscurity" and low stud fee before the chance that it could go up (if his foals start to do well on the track)...
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kimberley mine
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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- Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm
FOS, thank you. I had noticed that Mongoose is just kind of "there"--he is at the farm, but darn if you hear about it. Meanwhile, the farm is pushing Unbridled Time hard.
I think Broad Brush has tarred with a black brush (as it were) by his early sons at stud--Concern and Schossberg. Unfortunately, his first hugely successful racehorse crops were from decent but not great mares. Concern's immediate family reads like a list of Broad Brush offspring, and aside from a Gr-III winner and a champion in Brazil, there isn't much there. Schossberg is The Big Horse in his family, with a sprinking of black type here and there through the rest of it. They were nice racehorses, and wow wouldn't it be great to have one in my barn, but not the kind of family one would expect to get a big stallion from.
I think Broad Brush has tarred with a black brush (as it were) by his early sons at stud--Concern and Schossberg. Unfortunately, his first hugely successful racehorse crops were from decent but not great mares. Concern's immediate family reads like a list of Broad Brush offspring, and aside from a Gr-III winner and a champion in Brazil, there isn't much there. Schossberg is The Big Horse in his family, with a sprinking of black type here and there through the rest of it. They were nice racehorses, and wow wouldn't it be great to have one in my barn, but not the kind of family one would expect to get a big stallion from.
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rudydee
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[quote="kimberley mine"]FOS, thank you. I had noticed that Mongoose is just kind of "there"--he is at the farm, but darn if you hear about it. Meanwhile, the farm is pushing Unbridled Time hard.quote]
I think this farm has done an AWFUL job promoting/marketing Mongoose.
I intially emailed an inquiry about Mongoose earlier this year. No response.
I then left 3 phone messages over a period of a month with the woman who answers the phone at the farm. She gave the messages to the woman in charge of sales at Signature. No call back. There is NO excuse for this kind of crappy customer service. Is it any wonder that Mongoose was only bred to around 25 mares in 2005??!! Are Gary & Mary West aware of just how incompetent a job the Signature sales/marketing is doing with their stallion??
I think this farm has done an AWFUL job promoting/marketing Mongoose.
I intially emailed an inquiry about Mongoose earlier this year. No response.
I then left 3 phone messages over a period of a month with the woman who answers the phone at the farm. She gave the messages to the woman in charge of sales at Signature. No call back. There is NO excuse for this kind of crappy customer service. Is it any wonder that Mongoose was only bred to around 25 mares in 2005??!! Are Gary & Mary West aware of just how incompetent a job the Signature sales/marketing is doing with their stallion??
hi austique...hi rudydee
Mongoose to Cloverleaf will probably be a breath of fresh air...he's a very nice horse.
rudydee, your comments re: the way Signature apparently ignored you seems to be similar to other commentary I've heard about that farm...
...to me that raises a red flag.
rudydee, you ask "Are Gary & Mary West aware of just how incompetent a job the Signature sales/marketing is doing with their stallion??"
I would guess the move to Cloverleaf answers that question.
Respectfully
Mongoose to Cloverleaf will probably be a breath of fresh air...he's a very nice horse.
rudydee, your comments re: the way Signature apparently ignored you seems to be similar to other commentary I've heard about that farm...
...to me that raises a red flag.
rudydee, you ask "Are Gary & Mary West aware of just how incompetent a job the Signature sales/marketing is doing with their stallion??"
I would guess the move to Cloverleaf answers that question.
Respectfully