When a stallion is bred to a mare and the mare doesnt find the stallion compatible or congenial, would that make a difference in the offsprings racing ability?
The best racing season I ever had was to let the stallions and mares choose their own mates. The results of these mating were 1 on a scale of 1-10.
I dont know if thereis an unknown factor that makes the chrisma of these matings postive or negative. Has any other TB breeders had any positive results with these types of matings?
STALLION AND MARE CHEMISTRY
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louis finochio
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STALLION AND MARE CHEMISTRY
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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louis finochio
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louis finochio
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I didnt breed any mares in this fashion, but when I was a racing pigeon fancier, I let the cocks and hens choose their own mates.
The results from these compatible matings made me a believer of love at first sight and the chemistry between sexes was very productive.
The offspring from these matings were awarded 1 place over 150 other fanciers competing.
Before I discovered this way of mating, I would place the sexes in a compartment and the male would beat up on the hen and If I wasnt there to separate them sometimes the hen would lose her eye sight while try to escape the cock.
It is much easier on the hen if it is love at 1st sight, as there is no fighting between them.
The results from these compatible matings made me a believer of love at first sight and the chemistry between sexes was very productive.
The offspring from these matings were awarded 1 place over 150 other fanciers competing.
Before I discovered this way of mating, I would place the sexes in a compartment and the male would beat up on the hen and If I wasnt there to separate them sometimes the hen would lose her eye sight while try to escape the cock.
It is much easier on the hen if it is love at 1st sight, as there is no fighting between them.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
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erins isle
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Louis, I may be mistaken in the name of the horse, but I read this story about a mare Tesio wanted to breed, but for some reason as he started walking her to her future mate, they ended at another one, who was out in his paddock and they likes eachother so much that he decided them to mate. I believe these were the parents of Nearco, could also be Ribot's or his dad Bellini? Or maybe it is a fairytale, but I always liked the story.
In dogbreeding my friend bred a bitch three times to a dog who was not in her house, she would bite him if she could. The results were several champions however. The last time she was bred to a dog who was at her place and everything went fine. Result: two females, one very beautiful. So you never can tell.
This last story is true, she is retired now and lives at my place.
In dogbreeding my friend bred a bitch three times to a dog who was not in her house, she would bite him if she could. The results were several champions however. The last time she was bred to a dog who was at her place and everything went fine. Result: two females, one very beautiful. So you never can tell.
This last story is true, she is retired now and lives at my place.
Last edited by erins isle on Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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louis finochio
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Hi Margreet: The story of Tessio is true as I have read and heard the same as you stated.
When you force a mare and a stallion to mate when the are not fond of one another, I believe that mother nature is going to deal you a bad hand.
When a stallion and a mare find love at 1st sight everything will fall in its proper place and the result will be positive.
I have had this happen in my matings many times over, and I am a believer in these types of matings.
When you force a mare and a stallion to mate when the are not fond of one another, I believe that mother nature is going to deal you a bad hand.
When a stallion and a mare find love at 1st sight everything will fall in its proper place and the result will be positive.
I have had this happen in my matings many times over, and I am a believer in these types of matings.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
hi louis finochio
If I understood it correctly...
...I find your concept (and first hand experience) related to letting your pigeon(s) choose their mate(s)s...and the apparent success you had racing that/those offspring (as compared to the lesser success that you indicate other racing pigeons that did not choose their mates experienced) very interesting.
Coincidence or not, it sounds like a unique concept to me.
Best to you.
Respectfully
If I understood it correctly...
...I find your concept (and first hand experience) related to letting your pigeon(s) choose their mate(s)s...and the apparent success you had racing that/those offspring (as compared to the lesser success that you indicate other racing pigeons that did not choose their mates experienced) very interesting.
Coincidence or not, it sounds like a unique concept to me.
Best to you.
Respectfully
hi louis finochio
If I understood it correctly...
...I find your concept (and first hand experience) related to letting your pigeon(s) choose their mate(s)...and the apparent success you had racing that/those offspring (as compared to the lesser success that you indicate other racing pigeons that did not choose their mates experienced) very interesting.
Coincidence or not, it sounds like a unique concept to me.
Best to you.
Respectfully
If I understood it correctly...
...I find your concept (and first hand experience) related to letting your pigeon(s) choose their mate(s)...and the apparent success you had racing that/those offspring (as compared to the lesser success that you indicate other racing pigeons that did not choose their mates experienced) very interesting.
Coincidence or not, it sounds like a unique concept to me.
Best to you.
Respectfully
It would make sense to allow animals to choose their own mates as in the wild they would choose a mate which would ensure survival of the fittest. Good luck trying to get stallion managers to arrange a stallion and mare cocktail mixer though 
It will be interesting to see how War Emblem's foals do given his choosy nature.
It will be interesting to see how War Emblem's foals do given his choosy nature.I don't have low self-esteem. I have low esteem for everyone else. ~ Daria
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fastappy
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The idea sounds novel or even romantic. Planned matings (as opposed to selections by the dominant male or female) has led to the superior race horse. The dominant stallion may support the idea of survival of the fittest, but does not address the qualities needed to develop the best race horse.
Aside from the fact few will risk the health of the stallion or mare by uncontrolled breeding, this natural selection would not be based on;
1) physical compatability (strengths, weaknessess, size, conformation, soundness, etc.)
2) Sire line affinities
3) Speed & distance compatabilities
4) The ability to pass on specific genetic traits, racing ability/athlethicism
Culling and inbreeding would not be controlled. I doubt the Tesio, Boussac, or Nerud would entertain this idea without the aforementioned factors (thus making it a controlled breeding).
On the other side of the coin, soundness issues seem to be prominent among many active stallions. Track conditions have also allowed for faster times, but overall the Thoroughbred is a faster animal as a result of the controlled selection of mates.
Aside from the fact few will risk the health of the stallion or mare by uncontrolled breeding, this natural selection would not be based on;
1) physical compatability (strengths, weaknessess, size, conformation, soundness, etc.)
2) Sire line affinities
3) Speed & distance compatabilities
4) The ability to pass on specific genetic traits, racing ability/athlethicism
Culling and inbreeding would not be controlled. I doubt the Tesio, Boussac, or Nerud would entertain this idea without the aforementioned factors (thus making it a controlled breeding).
On the other side of the coin, soundness issues seem to be prominent among many active stallions. Track conditions have also allowed for faster times, but overall the Thoroughbred is a faster animal as a result of the controlled selection of mates.
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louis finochio
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The TB might be faster today but Dr. Fager and Secretariat would not become believers of that statement.
With a stallions progeny lifetime average starts down to 9 for the breed, the nicks, dosage etc havent been able to right the ship.
When a TB breeder breeds his mares to these fast stallions, the result is breakdowns and unsoundness. The non-(Phalaris) sire lines of the past is what was responsible for a stallion's lifetime progeny starts of 30 and up.
As its too late to bring back these non-(Phalaris) sire lines, us breeders are faced with this dilemma of unsoundness and breakdowns.
With a stallions progeny lifetime average starts down to 9 for the breed, the nicks, dosage etc havent been able to right the ship.
When a TB breeder breeds his mares to these fast stallions, the result is breakdowns and unsoundness. The non-(Phalaris) sire lines of the past is what was responsible for a stallion's lifetime progeny starts of 30 and up.
As its too late to bring back these non-(Phalaris) sire lines, us breeders are faced with this dilemma of unsoundness and breakdowns.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
Hi Louis,
I thought I was the only person who ever thought of this (congratulations, I think you got to the idea before as I didn't really formulate in any meaningful way untill I read about that finicky War Emblem in Japan).
An excellent post, XFactor Fan... A while ago I had a reverie on the subject of Man vs. Horse and the small chance that War Emblem could make Man look bad by proving a better judge of which mares should be bred to him than his Human Owners likely would've been.
It's important to understand that while Man is vastly more intelligent than the Horse, this subject (Horse Breeding) is and has been a matter of life and death for the Horse Race for a VERY long time...
In contrast, many Humans have almost no knowledge of it (including, alas, some who breed horses) and in fact it's but a small percentage of the Human Race that has any Meaningful Cultural Knowledge of the subject.
Therefore one need not indulge in a unreasonable exaltation of the Horse at the expense of the Human to speculate that the Horse may have a few tricks up its sleeve in regards to this subject upon which they have such a strong reason for interest. (The obvious thought that comes to me is that Pheromones that may tell the Horse things about the Genetic Code of a Prospective Mate highly relevant to whether or not said prospective mate would make a good mate for the horse perceiving the Pheromones.)
-llbean
I thought I was the only person who ever thought of this (congratulations, I think you got to the idea before as I didn't really formulate in any meaningful way untill I read about that finicky War Emblem in Japan).
\Well, a good test of this is to see what War Emblem produces. Do his "love matches" run well?
An excellent post, XFactor Fan... A while ago I had a reverie on the subject of Man vs. Horse and the small chance that War Emblem could make Man look bad by proving a better judge of which mares should be bred to him than his Human Owners likely would've been.
It's important to understand that while Man is vastly more intelligent than the Horse, this subject (Horse Breeding) is and has been a matter of life and death for the Horse Race for a VERY long time...
In contrast, many Humans have almost no knowledge of it (including, alas, some who breed horses) and in fact it's but a small percentage of the Human Race that has any Meaningful Cultural Knowledge of the subject.
Therefore one need not indulge in a unreasonable exaltation of the Horse at the expense of the Human to speculate that the Horse may have a few tricks up its sleeve in regards to this subject upon which they have such a strong reason for interest. (The obvious thought that comes to me is that Pheromones that may tell the Horse things about the Genetic Code of a Prospective Mate highly relevant to whether or not said prospective mate would make a good mate for the horse perceiving the Pheromones.)
-llbean
I don't doubt that horses (and other animals, for that matter) have a natural sense of which mates are more "compatible" genetically... however, I'm not sure that the horse's genetic criteria is the same as man's (speed)... and I'm also not sure how the herd structure affects things...?
In the wild, it isn't one stallion looking for one mate, it's one stallion fighting for or defending his right to breed to all the mares... so domestication may have affected this instinct in some way we haven't perceived yet...?? Just seems strange that a stallion (who in the wild would want to propegate his genes) would suddenly be choosy...??
In the wild, it isn't one stallion looking for one mate, it's one stallion fighting for or defending his right to breed to all the mares... so domestication may have affected this instinct in some way we haven't perceived yet...?? Just seems strange that a stallion (who in the wild would want to propegate his genes) would suddenly be choosy...??