Pedigree Query

Sorry for this thread but I got an information I couldn't believe:

ND covered 1.350 mares but only 370 of his progeny saw the race-tracks.

Is this or something comparable to that ratio true?

Thanks in advance!

I've never seen a stat of runners to covers before. ND had only 645 foals. How did you figure out how many mares he bred?

Northern Dancer had 635 named foals, 470 starters, and 368 winners.

I got that information on a German message board and didn't believe it at first sight. The main-reason given was a bad fertility.

halo wrote:Northern Dancer had 635 named foals, 470 starters, and 368 winners.

Going by the book Northern Dancer: The Legend and His Legacy by Muriel Lennox which was published in softcover in 1995 (well after his death) he had:

635 foals
511 runners (80%)
410 winners (80% of those who raced)
146 stakes winners, though I believe in the last year or two another was discovered, so 147
26 champions

Remember, back in Northern Dancer's day, a full book was often between 20 to 40 mares for a good stallion so the fact he had 'only' 635 foals I think had very little do do with his fertility. I'm not sure he ever even bred 40 mares in a season, some of his largest crops were 35 and 36 foals.
Given the emphasis on selection and quality over quantity back then, you have to wonder if any of today's sires breeding books of 150+ mares could actually be capable of similar numbers, given a more selective book...
Never happen though, $$$$$$$$$ means everything now.

The statistics I posted came from running a stallion report on ND at Bris.

I saw how Smarty Jones had a max book of mares with a Breeders Cup season discussed in talks with farms (110? something like that). Out of curiosity, what would be a good book to insist on that wouldn't get you laughed out of negotiations if you had a top notch horse--say a Derby/BCC winner, dual Classic winner, or horse with all the star power of a Smarty Jones? Could you ask for anything less than 80-85 mares? Is anything sub-100 a joke to them?

In Northern Dancer's day, a full book was at least 40 and usually was more like 50-60 mares for a seasoned stallion. In all probability, he covered about 60-70 mares to get the 35 foals because his fertility was not good--something he has passed on unfortunately. It wasn't until Alydar that the awesome 100 mare mark was breached but stallion managers were creeping closer and closer before then.

My "only" comment had more to do with the original poster's only comment of how many horses got to the races.

Heidilady wrote:I saw how Smarty Jones had a max book of mares with a Breeders Cup season discussed in talks with farms (110? something like that). Out of curiosity, what would be a good book to insist on that wouldn't get you laughed out of negotiations if you had a top notch horse--say a Derby/BCC winner, dual Classic winner, or horse with all the star power of a Smarty Jones? Could you ask for anything less than 80-85 mares? Is anything sub-100 a joke to them?

I hope you don't think I'm picking on you but you ask provocative questions and I always seem to be trying to answer them

Anyone who wants their stallion to be a success would not want less then 100 mares in that first season. The reason is that it is a numbers game today. A small select group of foals can get wiped out by injury, disease or mishap. The more runners, the more likely one of them is a stakes horse. And as Tiznow showed us last year, one big runner makes up for a lot of crows and potentially becomes a carpet that a sire can ride for the first couple of years both at the sales and on the farm. Also you never have another chance to do your sire's freshman season and Kentucky in particular has a short attention span.

In PACEMAKER, June 1985, I found that:

...since he has been at stud in the US (from 1969 onwards) ND had never a book of more than 46 mares in a single season.