Pedigree Query

Check out this unraced pedigree for $1,000. His full sister is a multi stakes winning mare

griff

Yeah this is a nice guy. I hope he gets some runners.

I agree--from a pedigree standpoint, he seems like a great deal. But there are some serious red flags with this guy too. I mean, with a pedigree like that, why is he unraced? Also, why is he standing at a farm in Oregon that specializes more in breeding for color than in breeding racehorses?

They actually breed racehorses too. And in recent years have been making a big effort to upgrade their TB stock with racing lines (AND color) so they can hopefully get colorful AND competitive racehorses. But I don't think they can quite afford a stakeswinning AP Indy son yet...

they had a lovely black horse but he died suddenly (Rob N Gin?) and I'm not sure they even got to get any foals out of him.

I'm sure Indy Pacific probably got injured in some way to keep him from starting. He doesn't look like he has any GLARING faults which would immediately scream potential breakdown. He could have kicked a tree and broken a foot. (my horse did that except luckily it wasn't broken but it sure swelled up from the hock down to LOOK like a tree). Horses can always find a way to hurt themselves even before they GET to the track...

You're right, they do breed racehorses as well. I guess my point/question was more along these lines: Why, if Indy Pacific is indeed a good stallion prospect, is he standing at a somewhat obscure farm in Oregon for $1000?

I mean, he only just turned 4, and he was bred last year as a three-year-old, so whatever kept him from the track must have been evident pretty early or happened to him at a pretty young age. With a pedigree like that, I'd think that he'd start his stud career at a larger market. That's why I'm wary; it seems like a red flag that screaming "Buyer Beware." Deals that seem too good to be true often are. Personally, I'd be inclined to wait and see what kind of runners he was able to get, before I sent any mares to him.

I think it has more to do with the fact that he IS unraced and thus was available in their price range and would be able to stand at an Oregon fee vs. a KY or CA or FL or NY fee... They want to make money but they have to get mares to him to get hm to prove himself. One way or the other. Had he gotten to the track and won or won a stakes his price tag would have jumped considerably. If you want to upgrade you buy the best bloodlines you can afford and since I don't think there is exactly a shortage of AP Indys at the moment he was probably a reasonable price.

Or look at it this way if you had a stakes winning AP Indy son who looks good and has a nice bottom line are you going to stand him in Oregon for Oregon fees when you can stand him in CA at CA fees? But that won't do much if you are trying to upgrade the stock in Oregon will it? The horses with the good records don't end up in small markets until they actually show themselves to not fit in KY or CA or FL or NY (I hate to say "fail" when these horses often do very well in the small ponds where they land).

You can buy unproven (on the track) pedigree for a reasonable price OR proven on the track but lacking pedigree for a proven price but not many graded (or just stakeswinning) sons of AP Indy are going to START out in Oregon or WA for $1,000. You have to start somewhere and personally I'd rather go with nice conformation and great pedigree that never made it to the track (for a good reason of course) then one that made it there and couldn't run a lick or broke down because of his conformation.

I don't believe Indy Pacific has gotten many mares at all. Maybe 11 last year? He doesn't have an impressive photo. The same farm stands Count Me In - also a son of AP Indy- as well, so that's kind of conflicting. I'm 99% positive they bought both stallions at Keeneland in different years as unraced prospects, as they did with Rob 'n Gin. They focus so much on Sanctuary, who I say to, just because of his color. Ah well, to each his own.

If you want to see bloodlines in OR, look at Oakhurst's stallions' pedigrees - http://www.oakhurstthoroughbreds.com - *I* wouldn't breed to Dr. Litin, but it's a feather in some people's cap to breed to the son of a Derby-winner.

Exactly. Indy Pacific was purchased at Keeneland as a two-year-old for $12,000. A two-year-old AP Indy colt out of a GSW mare for $12,000?!?!? That's a cull, pure and simple, and there's just no way I'd breed a mare to him until he does something to prove that his owners made a mistake in culling him.