I assume a KY farm will purchase him although I think he would be a better regional sire.
We all know his racing career was injury plagued. What do you think his first year stud fee will be? I assume somewhere between 7.5k to 12.5K. There is a log jam in KY with Eurosilver, Value Plus and Even the Score in that price range.
Rockport Harbor the Stallion
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Re: Rockport Harbor the Stallion
HR LLC wrote:I assume a KY farm will purchase him although I think he would be a better regional sire.
We all know his racing career was injury plagued. What do you think his first year stud fee will be? I assume somewhere between 7.5k to 12.5K. There is a log jam in KY with Eurosilver, Value Plus and Even the Score in that price range.
If they were smart, they'd start him at $5k just for that very reason.
I'm thinking a deal has already been struck, they're just waiting on finalizing the papers before announcing and I wouldn't be surprised to hear he's going to be covering mares this year.
It's only March (granted late March). I'm not sure what the let down time is, but if they can get him "breeding ready" in 30 days or less, he'll have all of May and June to cover plus a little bit of April. That makes for March-May babies next year. I'm fairly sure they could get 40 or so mares booked to him on late covers this year (mares that didn't catch to other sires earlier this year).
I'd like to see him at Buck Pond.
hi guys
Yes...Rockport Harbor is by Unbridled's Song...who does have a son at stud, by the name of Songandaprayer, that's arguably hot as a firecracker.
Regardless...RH's second and third dams, by Banner Bob (by Herculean) and Kamaraan (by Tanerko) respectively...might stop many in their tracks COLD. All things considered though, including his soundness issues, I expect that at a reasonable stud fee Rockport Harbor would (assuming he looks the part) attract attention at a farm like Buck Pond (as recommended by Sam).
Rockport Harbor's definitely got some of positives to talk about...but arguably his negatives (including soundness issues) are difficult to ignore.
Respectfully
Yes...Rockport Harbor is by Unbridled's Song...who does have a son at stud, by the name of Songandaprayer, that's arguably hot as a firecracker.
Regardless...RH's second and third dams, by Banner Bob (by Herculean) and Kamaraan (by Tanerko) respectively...might stop many in their tracks COLD. All things considered though, including his soundness issues, I expect that at a reasonable stud fee Rockport Harbor would (assuming he looks the part) attract attention at a farm like Buck Pond (as recommended by Sam).
Rockport Harbor's definitely got some of positives to talk about...but arguably his negatives (including soundness issues) are difficult to ignore.
Respectfully
Sam, I'm not sure they'd want to start him this year, even if they could get him ready in time. Young stallions live and die by the First (and Second) Year Sire Lists.
It would be a huge disadvantage, both at the sales and at the racetrack, for his first crop to be small and consist of only late babies. Maybe if they make him a regional sire it could work, but if he comes to KY, I'm betting they wait to try and get him a full book next year.
It would be a huge disadvantage, both at the sales and at the racetrack, for his first crop to be small and consist of only late babies. Maybe if they make him a regional sire it could work, but if he comes to KY, I'm betting they wait to try and get him a full book next year.
LSB wrote:It would be a huge disadvantage, both at the sales and at the racetrack, for his first crop to be small and consist of only late babies.
Okay, first off, I'm going to blame the Coolmore jackasses for putting this notion that 40 foals is a small crop into the collective heads of breeders. There was a time when 40 foals was a very respectable sum. Pretty damn sad that only 3 of the top 20 freshman sires last year had less than 50 foals.
Second, it's really only commercial sires (which, sadly, I'm sure Rocky going to be pushed as) that live and die by those first two crops. If the numbers are there (high percentage of starters/winners/stakes performers), a good stallion will find respect, total number of foals aside.
If he had 40 2yos and 30 of them started, 20 of them won and 5 of them stakes PLACED (not won), he'd get the bigger books. REAL breeders do actually look at those numbers.
Third, knowing this sireline and the propensity it has for throwing unsound horses, I'd welcome late foals (and I don't really consider March/April a "late foal" ... June yes, May is pushing it, but not March) ... it might keep the fools from pushing them as babies and letting them grow and develop a little more.
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LaTroienne
- Restricted Stakes Winner
- Posts: 762
- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:57 pm
FOS wrote:hi guys
Yes...Rockport Harbor is by Unbridled's Song...who does have a son at stud, by the name of Songandaprayer, that's arguably hot as a firecracker.
Regardless...RH's second and third dams, by Banner Bob (by Herculean) and Kamaraan (by Tanerko) respectively...might stop many in their tracks COLD. All things considered though, including his soundness issues, I expect that at a reasonable stud fee Rockport Harbor would (assuming he looks the part) attract attention at a farm like Buck Pond (as recommended by Sam).
Rockport Harbor's definitely got some of positives to talk about...but arguably his negatives (including soundness issues) are difficult to ignore.
Respectfully
Hot as a firecracker.....but Song's best son broke down at two and he was unsound - his sire and grandsire were unsound....
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StrawberryFelidos
- Allowance Winner
- Posts: 425
- Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:04 pm
hi LaTroienne
Yes...HOT AS A FIRECRACKER
He was $10k live foal stand and nurse last year...stands for an advertised stud fee of $35k live foal for 2006...but try to get a season to him now. Maybe you'll find one for $55k+-. Then try and buy a share in him...maybe $275K+-.
Yes he's HOT AS A FIRECRACKER...I suggest that you take a look at a number of his offspring (in the flesh) and you might understand why...
...
and don't be surprised if he's standing for $75k to $100k sooner rather than later.
Respectfully
LaTroienne wrote:FOS wrote:hi guys
Yes...Rockport Harbor is by Unbridled's Song...who does have a son at stud, by the name of Songandaprayer, that's arguably hot as a firecracker.
Regardless...RH's second and third dams, by Banner Bob (by Herculean) and Kamaraan (by Tanerko) respectively...might stop many in their tracks COLD. All things considered though, including his soundness issues, I expect that at a reasonable stud fee Rockport Harbor would (assuming he looks the part) attract attention at a farm like Buck Pond (as recommended by Sam).
Rockport Harbor's definitely got some of positives to talk about...but arguably his negatives (including soundness issues) are difficult to ignore.
Respectfully
Hot as a firecracker.....but Song's best son broke down at two and he was unsound - his sire and grandsire were unsound....
Yes...HOT AS A FIRECRACKER
He was $10k live foal stand and nurse last year...stands for an advertised stud fee of $35k live foal for 2006...but try to get a season to him now. Maybe you'll find one for $55k+-. Then try and buy a share in him...maybe $275K+-.
Yes he's HOT AS A FIRECRACKER...I suggest that you take a look at a number of his offspring (in the flesh) and you might understand why...
...
and don't be surprised if he's standing for $75k to $100k sooner rather than later.
Respectfully
hi StrawberryFelidos
Sorry SF...you say "Ouch" (re: Songandaprayer)...I believe you're way off base with that description.
I strongly suggest that he is the real deal, and often sires the kind of physical horses that stallion managers and breeders alike dream of getting...the WOW kind.
Best to you.
Respectfully
StrawberryFelidos wrote:Hot as a firecracker.....but Song's best son broke down at two and he was unsound - his sire and grandsire were unsound....
Ouch. That's all I can say about that. OUCH.
Ain't it something when your best son breaks down and dies at age 2? Gaaah...
Sorry SF...you say "Ouch" (re: Songandaprayer)...I believe you're way off base with that description.
I strongly suggest that he is the real deal, and often sires the kind of physical horses that stallion managers and breeders alike dream of getting...the WOW kind.
Best to you.
Respectfully
FOS wrote:I strongly suggest that he is the real deal, and often sires the kind of physical horses that stallion managers and breeders alike dream of getting...the WOW kind.
That "wow" factor is all well and fine, FOS, but doesn't mean a damn thing when the best foals from this UNSOUND sire and UNSOUND sireline breakdown and DIE before they even see their 3rd year.
They are fragile as hell and you couldn't pay me to own anything off that line. If someone gave me one, I'd probably shoot it just to keep some other fool from trying to breed it. Colts and fillies. There isn't a single Unbridled's Song foal or grandfoal that should be in the breeding pool. Hell, Unbridled's Song shouldn't even be in the breeding pool but commercial breeders just love to piss away good money on fragile horses.
hi Sam
I've seen plenty of Songandaprayer's offspring...they are a much better group (in general) than his own sire gets.
As you know, only a small percentage of Unbridled's Songs are worth their salt physically...but Songandaprayer is much more consistent (than his sire) when it comes to getting very good to grand physical specimens.
He really gets a good percentage of WOW horses...and for the most part they're from pretty ordinary mares.
Based on what I've seen with my own eyes...I suggest his future is VERY bright.
Best to you always Sam.
Respectfully
I've seen plenty of Songandaprayer's offspring...they are a much better group (in general) than his own sire gets.
As you know, only a small percentage of Unbridled's Songs are worth their salt physically...but Songandaprayer is much more consistent (than his sire) when it comes to getting very good to grand physical specimens.
He really gets a good percentage of WOW horses...and for the most part they're from pretty ordinary mares.
Based on what I've seen with my own eyes...I suggest his future is VERY bright.
Best to you always Sam.
Respectfully
FOS wrote:As you know, only a small percentage of Unbridled's Songs are worth their salt physically...but Songandaprayer is much more consistent (than his sire) when it comes to getting very good to grand physical specimens.
He really gets a good percentage of WOW horses...and for the most part they're from pretty ordinary mares.
But again, if they are all so fragile they never make it past their 2yo season, what's the point?
I'm not doubting the fact that he gets very good looking animals (I suspect it's more to do with the mares than himself since I'm not really seeing him stamp his foals), I'm just saying I don't care how good a foal looks when they can't stay sound enough to race more than half a dozen times without major coddling or catastrophic breakdowns.
hi Sam
If they all splatter...Songandaprayer's days as a HOT sire will be numbered.
As for stamping his foals...I have seen too many good ones out of what I might describe as average to less than average mares (both physically and pedigree-wise). Based on what I've seen...I am convinced that he moves his mares up. He usually puts a lot of bone on a foal...gets a very well proportioned, very strongly made type...and they're usually very good sized horses (whether the mare has much size to offer or not).
Many that I've seen are excellent walkers, have good length, a strong forearm, an impressive set of quarters and gaskins, and a pendulum-like neck.
They are just damn good individuals.
Clearly his first brilliant colt was finished after but three starts, but we cannot ignore his impressive talent.
Right now though...many of Songandaprayer's offspring (in general) are just too good looking to ignore, and many seem to be competitors. Will they stand up...will they get two turns? Only time will tell...but reality is that right now he is hot as a firecracker. And I expect that will continue.
Respectfully
Sam wrote:FOS wrote:As you know, only a small percentage of Unbridled's Songs are worth their salt physically...but Songandaprayer is much more consistent (than his sire) when it comes to getting very good to grand physical specimens.
He really gets a good percentage of WOW horses...and for the most part they're from pretty ordinary mares.
But again, if they are all so fragile they never make it past their 2yo season, what's the point?
I'm not doubting the fact that he gets very good looking animals (I suspect it's more to do with the mares than himself since I'm not really seeing him stamp his foals), I'm just saying I don't care how good a foal looks when they can't stay sound enough to race more than half a dozen times without major coddling or catastrophic breakdowns.
If they all splatter...Songandaprayer's days as a HOT sire will be numbered.
As for stamping his foals...I have seen too many good ones out of what I might describe as average to less than average mares (both physically and pedigree-wise). Based on what I've seen...I am convinced that he moves his mares up. He usually puts a lot of bone on a foal...gets a very well proportioned, very strongly made type...and they're usually very good sized horses (whether the mare has much size to offer or not).
Many that I've seen are excellent walkers, have good length, a strong forearm, an impressive set of quarters and gaskins, and a pendulum-like neck.
They are just damn good individuals.
Clearly his first brilliant colt was finished after but three starts, but we cannot ignore his impressive talent.
Right now though...many of Songandaprayer's offspring (in general) are just too good looking to ignore, and many seem to be competitors. Will they stand up...will they get two turns? Only time will tell...but reality is that right now he is hot as a firecracker. And I expect that will continue.
Respectfully
To FOS and Sam;
Please forgive my ignorance, but why Buck Pond? Is there a connection to RH and Buck Pond, or just a place you think RH will fit?
Off Topic;
Speaking of Buck Pond, They have one of my favorites in Seattle Fitz. Sure hope he cuts it as a sire.
What do you think of his(Seattle Fitz) future as a sire? (Either Sam or FOS)
Regards, Shergar
Please forgive my ignorance, but why Buck Pond? Is there a connection to RH and Buck Pond, or just a place you think RH will fit?
Off Topic;
Speaking of Buck Pond, They have one of my favorites in Seattle Fitz. Sure hope he cuts it as a sire.
What do you think of his(Seattle Fitz) future as a sire? (Either Sam or FOS)
Regards, Shergar
Here is a partial list of some of Unbridled's Song's "unsound" stakes winners from 2005-2006:
SPLENDID BLENDED 4yo, F, 2006 SW
Vanity Invitational H. (g. I; 7/3/2005)
Shirley Jones Breeders' Cup H. (g. II; 3/18/2006)
UNBRIDLED ENERGY 4yo, C, 2006 SW
San Fernando Breeders' Cup S. (g. II; 1/14/2006)
Marine S. (CAN-III; 5/21/2005)
FOREST MUSIC 5yo, M, 2005 SW
Honorable Miss H. (g. II; 8/5/2005)
Primonetta S. (4/16/2005)
EUROSILVER 5yo, H, 2005 SW
Skip Away H. (g. III; 4/2/2005)
2nd Stephen Foster H. (g. I; 6/18/2005)
ROCKPORT HARBOR 4yo, C, 2006 SW
Essex H. (g. III; 2/11/2006)
2nd Rebel S. (g. III; 3/19/2005)
AMBITION UNBRIDLED 5yo, M, 2005 SW
Dr. A. B. Leggio Memorial H. (1/15/2005)
Citgo S. (2/26/2005)
VALUE PLUS 5yo, H, 2005 SW
Rollin On Over Artax H. (4/2/2005)
3rd Westchester H. (g. III; 5/4/2005)
UNINHIBITED SONG 5yo, M, 2005 SW
Deputy Minister Miss America H. (10/30/2005)
Foster City H. (3/5/2005)
Enough already with the ridiculous internet theories being spread that the Unbridled's Song line is more unsound than any others that are out there.
SPLENDID BLENDED 4yo, F, 2006 SW
Vanity Invitational H. (g. I; 7/3/2005)
Shirley Jones Breeders' Cup H. (g. II; 3/18/2006)
UNBRIDLED ENERGY 4yo, C, 2006 SW
San Fernando Breeders' Cup S. (g. II; 1/14/2006)
Marine S. (CAN-III; 5/21/2005)
FOREST MUSIC 5yo, M, 2005 SW
Honorable Miss H. (g. II; 8/5/2005)
Primonetta S. (4/16/2005)
EUROSILVER 5yo, H, 2005 SW
Skip Away H. (g. III; 4/2/2005)
2nd Stephen Foster H. (g. I; 6/18/2005)
ROCKPORT HARBOR 4yo, C, 2006 SW
Essex H. (g. III; 2/11/2006)
2nd Rebel S. (g. III; 3/19/2005)
AMBITION UNBRIDLED 5yo, M, 2005 SW
Dr. A. B. Leggio Memorial H. (1/15/2005)
Citgo S. (2/26/2005)
VALUE PLUS 5yo, H, 2005 SW
Rollin On Over Artax H. (4/2/2005)
3rd Westchester H. (g. III; 5/4/2005)
UNINHIBITED SONG 5yo, M, 2005 SW
Deputy Minister Miss America H. (10/30/2005)
Foster City H. (3/5/2005)
Enough already with the ridiculous internet theories being spread that the Unbridled's Song line is more unsound than any others that are out there.