Pedigree Query

Good move by Claiborne...

I wonder if they have escalating clauses in the contract. For example, if this horse wins the triple crown(highly unlikely but you never know) or 1 of the three classics, travers, jockey or breeders cup, would the owners get more money from Claiborne?

Wow- way to announce retirement plans before even running in the Derby! Considering that those are normally announced about five minutes after the race, the owners are a bit ahead of themselves

Now I'm beginning to suspect that he'll be retired long before the big D (naturally they'll suggest that he would have won anyway, so why bother risking an injury? )

Ah, but I should correct myself- many breeding plans are made five minutes after the Belmont, meaning that the owners are waaaay ahead of themselves.

What's the deal with this? Forget this horse running at all. Scratch him off all your picks for eternity, including as a stallion.

The owners of FS have a long relationship with Claiborne, no surprises here. The deal without doubt contains "kickers" for performance.

Also this is Claiborne where the book really does close. They need First Samurai to do something big or they are probably only talking about a 30,000 stallion with less than 100 mare book. If he doesn't make it through the Triple Crown grind, he really is hurt.

Forget this horse running at all. Scratch him off all your picks for eternity, including as a stallion.

Amen to the first part, but why scratch him as a stallion?

They are announcing his stud duty contract in March of his Three Year Old Year?? What sort of stallion prospect is he?? Unsound, not competitive? YEAAAH That's just what I wanna breed to.....

hi madelyn

madelyn wrote:What's the deal with this? Forget (First Samurai) running at all. Scratch him off all your picks for eternity, including as a stallion.

Yeah...but what do you really think?

Your comments regarding the announcement that First Samurai will stand at Claiborne upon his retirement, grabbed my attention. Why? Maybe just a coincidence...but one of the worst foals I've set eyes on in 2006 is by a young Claiborne stallion...Strong Hope.

For the sake of Claiborne, I hope that what I saw was an exception and not the rule, and that Claiborne's selection of First Samurai (as a future stallion) is a good one, but I too have my doubts.

Is it unfair to suggest that Claiborne today is barely a shadow of what it was in years gone by?

Best to you.

Respectfully

FOS wrote:

Is it unfair to suggest that Claiborne today is barely a shadow of what it was in years gone by?

Best to you.

Respectfully

They seem to have a penchant for selling promising stallion prospects...
Coronado's Quest is a far better stallion than any they have now.

reese wrote:

FOS wrote:

Is it unfair to suggest that Claiborne today is barely a shadow of what it was in years gone by?

Best to you.

Respectfully

They seem to have a penchant for selling promising stallion prospects...
Coronado's Quest is a far better stallion than any they have now.

That's not true, IMO. Obviously there's Seeking the Gold, and Pulpit is a much better sire than CQ ever was.

hi Betsy

Betsy wrote:

reese wrote:

FOS wrote:

Is it unfair to suggest that Claiborne today is barely a shadow of what it was in years gone by?

Best to you.

Respectfully

They seem to have a penchant for selling promising stallion prospects...
Coronado's Quest is a far better stallion than any they have now.

That's not true, IMO. Obviously there's Seeking the Gold, and Pulpit is a much better sire than CQ ever was.

But Pulpit is no match for many former Claiborne sires including Mr Prospector...Danzig...Nijinsky...Unbridled...Buckpasser...or Bold Ruler. Who would you like to add to the list?

And what about Secretariat? His popularity certainly loomed large at Claiborne, and I expect he attracted more visitors to Claiborne than any stallion ever.

And just a reminder, Claiborne sold Forty Niner...OUCH.

As for Seeking the Gold...isn't he approaching 58 years-old ?

Seems to me fair to suggest that Claiborne is barely a shadow of what it was in years gone by.

Respectfully

Can I pose a hypothetical that occurred to me reading this thread: Say your horse in the future wins the Triple Crown, do you give Claiborne any boost over other stud farms in your search for a place to send him 'b/c it's Claiborne for pete's sake' or do you say 'hey Three Chimneys handled Smarty's visitation well and obviously they had Seattle Slew so maybe we outta look there' ?

Any other farms you'd consider particular standouts for a Triple Crown winning stallion? Say that you want to limit the book to 50 mares (60, on the outside. Please nobody throw tomatoes at me for that. I've always thought 100 was absurd--sure, yeah, I guess you can find 100-150 mares that are an ideal conformational and genetic match that wouldn't work better for a different and possibly cheaper stallion, and I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya). Who's "worthy" and who can really handle a top quality stud prospect to the level that he deserves to be if he's achieved the TC? ...the argument about Claiborne's luster is certainly a factor for some. I for one am kinda sad that Calumet's fallen with such a crash. Hopefully they have some sort of plan other than resting on their olden day laurels. Is Calumet out of the stallion standing business?

I figure Giant's Causeway's good but highly overrated and now they're going for a (currently) overrated son? Seriously? Wait til he gets something done in the Triple Crown or the fall classics before you trip over your other overhyped young stallions to get to him.

If I owned a TC winner or any really good stallion prospect, I think I'd want him at Winstar, at least of the Lexington area farms.