Pedigree Query

Link to story:

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33607


Apparently he was one nasty customer.

Can a horse with this kind of temperment be controlled?
Or is euthanasia the right decision??

Horses with bad temperments can be controlled, but you must be cautious around them at all times. I am sure because he was a son of Seattle Slew, the idea of gelding him was out of the question. Besides, gelding doesn't always get rid of meaness in a male horse. Ol' John Henry is a mean lil' cuss and he's been snipped.

The owners were probably afraid the next time he attacked someone he would kill them. They took the step of having him euthanized to avoid a worse incident.

The article mentioned that he was considered dangerous so I wonder if the woman who was attacked let her guard down. He was returning from a breeding session, so he was probably full of himself and decided to push her around.

It must of been very scary - especially since it said in the article that he was lunging after a breeding assistant as well while pinning down Ms. Jackson.

I am sorry that he had to be euthanized, but I hope Ms. Jackson
fully recovers.

Isn't it fairly common to euthanize horses that show this level of aggression? Yes it's tragic and maybe a relapse could be prevented with training, but I think it's the only responsible thing to do if you value human life.

Yes, I believe it was the right thing to do. Sorry that it came to something so terrible.

I would do the same---but I would hate it.


The stallions that I used to work with could be dangerous but never did anything like that. The worst horse on the place was a gelding. He was a sneaky SOB.......but still not to the extent of the above stallion.

Best thing to do for all involved.

Though (and this is going to be really crude) ... am I the only one who read the article and wondered if maybe Ms. Jackson was maybe on her period at the time?

I've been around and have heard of a few stallions that have become dodgy around menstrating women and it was the first thing I thought of when I read this. I've seen it in dogs more than horses but it's the same thing.

hi Nerd...hi guys

Nerd wrote:Isn't it fairly common to euthanize horses that show this level of aggression? Yes it's tragic and maybe a relapse could be prevented with training, but I think it's the only responsible thing to do if you value human life.

Based on what I read in the Blood-Horse article...I am NOT convinced that euthanizing Corislew was necessary and/or the appropriate action.

For starters, consider the following comment (in the Blood-Horse article) credited to Victory Rose Thoroughbreds farm assistant Monica Jordan (regarding Corslew, who stood at Victory Rose)... "Jordan said Corslew was known to be dangerous." and that "this one came with a warning."

Respectfully...something does not sound right there (to my way of thinking)...

...1/ apparently Corslew was moved from his previous home (Rancho San Miguel) to stand at Victory Rose Thoroughbreds in 2006...2/ prior to his arrival at Victory Rose Thoroughbreds, Corslew was known to be dangerous (as farm assistant Jordan indicated)..."But he'd been okay here" per Jordan... 3/ Corslew apparently attacked (per the article) Ellen Lee Jackson (Victory Rose Thoroughbred Farm owner and manager) while being returned to his stall after a breeding. That said, remember Ms Jordan offered regarding Corslew's reputation as dangerous "This one came with a warning".

Hmmm..."(Corslew) came with a warning."

From my perspective...knowing that a stallion is reputed to be dangerous (as Ms Jordan offered), in and of itself offers fair warning and transfers a HUGE responsibility and burden (if you will) to farm management and the handlers. All the more reason to BEWARE, and be EXTREMELY cautious, focused and prudent etc...AT ALL TIMES. Respectfully...it would not surprise me (based on the article) to learn that Ms Jackson let her guard down, if just for a moment and/or unwittingly placed herself in an extremely precarious position.

I believe that the burden is squarely on farm management and the grooms...handlers etc working with the stallions to fully understand the habits, dangers, risks etc etc etc related to their charges...and act professionally and accordingly at ALL TIMES. It is incumbent upon everyone involved to understand the potential consequences related to losing focus and/or dropping their guard etc etc etc.

I submit...if dangerous was the criteria to euthanize stallions...stallions like (for starters) Storm Bird (who was known to attack and savage), Dynaformer, Foolish Pleasure, Silver Ghost etc etc etc, would have met their demise as a result of death by injection.

Fortunately Ms Jackson is alive and hopefully well...regardless...the article does not convince me that euthanizing Corslew was necessary and/or the appropriate action.

I'd like to know more re: this matter.

Thoughts?

Respectfully

hi Sam

Sam wrote:Though (and this is going to be really crude) ... am I the only one who read the article and wondered if maybe Ms. Jackson was maybe on her period at the time?

You could be right on target Sam.

That's a possibility and a reason why I indicated that I'd like to know more re: this matter.

Best to you.

Respectfully

Having worked with dogs for most of my life (and some downright nasty bastards, at that) I don't have much tolerance for animals who try to kill me. If I owned an animal who mauled someone like that, I would be very hard-pressed not to order "the needle".
Of course, stallions are "special" in that they have a lot of monetary value and bring in the bacon. Bacon complicates things. If the horse was making me a big income... well... then I'd have to figure out if that horse's contribution to the breed (and to my wallet ) outweighed the possibility of him killing a human being.
Chances are, unless this guy was bringing in a lot of money, or was uber-promising with his offspring, I'd cut my losses. There are plenty of other stallion possibilities out there who can bring in bacon and who do not come with big labels: "WARNING- DON'T BLINK! WILL MAUL AT DROP OF HAT!"

In this horse's case we don't know exactly what happened, so it's not possible to say if it was the right decision (it's certainly a tragic decision), but I would argue that from the owner's POV it was the only responsible one.

Think about the situation from the owner's point of view. If they had decided not to euthanize him, and he later went on to kill someone, the owners would be in the position of being responsible for that death, in the sense that there were multiple warnings that such a thing could happen and they didn't prevent it from happening. I don't know enough to say if they would be legally or criminally responsible, but surely they would feel responsible on a personal level???

Now if they felt that the earnings from keeping Corslew (who? sold for $27k as a 6yo) are worth that risk, then more power to them; I would never in my life want to interact with them ever at all.

Of course if we were talking about a Storm Bird, then maybe the earnings might tip the scale the other way. After all, if we take the average productivity of one American to be ~$1M and assume that will be the cost of potential nastiness if someone gets killed (ie bereaved people getting pissy and sueing, paying the therapist to deal with your grief at having indirectly killed someone, etc...), then depending on the expectation value you assign to death you could argue that keeping a homicidal (potentially or even verifyably homicidal) stallion around is a sound investment. Hell, Storm Cat could afford to kill several people a year at that rate.

I am exaggerating for the sake of argument here, but I think it's a point worth making.

I agree with FOS, well stated post. That said, why didn't she have another person handling the horse with her? Lots of studs are nutty comeing back from the shed, that seems pretty irresponsiable to me in and of itself. Many are double handled, handled with a club and 2 people etc. Sounds like no special precautions were taken and should have been.

I dunno. What about putting a muzzle on the offending stud? Hell, they put a muzzle on SILVER GHOST in most of his conformation shots! Look at his walking video:
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/isd/st ... ilverghost
Click on the Broadband link on the left...

Handling this guy alone is also a questionable tactic...

Regardless, I wish her a speedy recovery.

Last time I was at Lane's End, I was talking to the guy who takes care of Silver Ghost and I wanted to know how they deal with him. Silver Ghost is definitely a nasty character, but I don't think he is ever known to have actually attacked or seriously harmed anyone. His groom said with appropriate precautions (ie, muzzle) and fair treatment, SG is manageable. You can't manhandle or strongarm him; he said he's very kind to the horse and SG responds to that. They leave a lead shank on him all the time during breeding season when he's in his stall and SG has learned to pick up his feet to avoid stepping on it. He's apparently pretty intelligent, as well. The other grooms double team him when they go to get him out of his paddock: one with a bucket of feed, the other to get his halter and muzzle on. I did notice that during their open houses, there's usually someone constantly stationed by his stall to make sure no one loses a finger

Just out of curiousity how does Silver Ghost handle mares that are booked to him ?

I wonder how much Corslew was insured for? And if that tipped the scales one way or the other.