Jan KEE Sale
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
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ratherrapid
- Grade II Winner
- Posts: 1276
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:04 pm
- Location: kansas city, missouri
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scrimshaw
yes, there seems the major league horse.
Thanks guys! He was a nice colt and I'm sure someone will try and pinhook him. We struggled to get the $10,500 for him. I'm pretty sure I won't be taking my stock back to Keeneland in January. Guess I should be happy that they sold and from what I saw alot didn't or went for a whole lot less.
LESSON LEARNED:
1. X-ray before shipping off for prepping for November sale (so you pay double for x-rays) - at least you 'll know if you need to keep them a few months longer.
2. Keep them as long yearlings versus short yearlings (HA). Of course, alot can happen between January and September - so that probably isn't an option
Glad it is over though. I am tired and I've walked my rear off this week - too bad I ate like a pig being out of town so no weight loss there
Thanks for all your support.
Now to await the new babies and start this game all over again.
LESSON LEARNED:
1. X-ray before shipping off for prepping for November sale (so you pay double for x-rays) - at least you 'll know if you need to keep them a few months longer.
2. Keep them as long yearlings versus short yearlings (HA). Of course, alot can happen between January and September - so that probably isn't an option
Glad it is over though. I am tired and I've walked my rear off this week - too bad I ate like a pig being out of town so no weight loss there
Thanks for all your support.
Now to await the new babies
and start this game all over again."We are the people our parents warned us about" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
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geowarrior
- Leading Sire
- Posts: 3593
- Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
- Location: Spokane, WA
Well yesterday was a pretty bad day for sellers in general, clh you did very well to get $10.5K. I was there earlier and bought a mare out back (#2315) after she failed to bring $1K minimum bid.
There were a ton of RNA's. The weather was dismal and there were just not many buyers there.
There were a ton of RNA's. The weather was dismal and there were just not many buyers there.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Too bad we didn't hook up again Madelyn. Sorry we missed each other.
Yep, Scrimshaw was a nice colt (but then aren't they all when they are yours?) and like I said we struggled and were lucky to get the $10,500 for him. Thought about bringing both colts back (Birdstone and Scrimshaw) but I really don't have the room for them since I just added two more mares the first of the year and I've still got the Tapit filly that I withdrew and will put in this September. So....unless I'm ready to move out of the house - I just didn't have room for them.
It was a lousy week all around I thought. I saw some really nice mares andd foals sell for next to nothing. Most weren't even bringing stud fees for the stallion they were in foal to - now that would suck bigtime! I think Millennium Farms folks were out back in the sales ring pushing for the Scrimshaw colt as well.
Let's face it - if we all made a ton of money in this business we'd be living better than the horses (HA) - as it is - I'm pretty sure they are living better than me - I know they see the doctor alot more than I do and they get peddies more often than me!
It was only disappointing in as far as I knew both colts were nice and x-rayed clean and scoped A's and then to bring so little (for them and my mares) was a little disappointing - I haven't made any $$$ yet so I wasn't expecting to make a ton this trip out (HA).
Rain didn't help either - I shudder to see what today brings at the ring
for the horses, foals and the sellers. I'm sure the buyers will be thrilled with what they get.
Don't let anyone tell you differently - book placement makes a big difference - as does your mare and stallion of course!
Maybe the Tapit filly will make up for it all (doesn't hurt to dream big does it?)
Thanks again for your kind words and support.
PS - Someone asked me why I put this information on here with the pics and sale prices - said it wasn't good practice - LOL - duh - like you all can't look up the results for yourself! Besides, I was proud of the boys and who knows maybe somone reading this might have actually come and seen them!
Yep, Scrimshaw was a nice colt (but then aren't they all when they are yours?) and like I said we struggled and were lucky to get the $10,500 for him. Thought about bringing both colts back (Birdstone and Scrimshaw) but I really don't have the room for them since I just added two more mares the first of the year and I've still got the Tapit filly that I withdrew and will put in this September. So....unless I'm ready to move out of the house - I just didn't have room for them.
It was a lousy week all around I thought. I saw some really nice mares andd foals sell for next to nothing. Most weren't even bringing stud fees for the stallion they were in foal to - now that would suck bigtime! I think Millennium Farms folks were out back in the sales ring pushing for the Scrimshaw colt as well.
Let's face it - if we all made a ton of money in this business we'd be living better than the horses (HA) - as it is - I'm pretty sure they are living better than me - I know they see the doctor alot more than I do
and they get peddies more often than me!
It was only disappointing in as far as I knew both colts were nice and x-rayed clean and scoped A's and then to bring so little (for them and my mares) was a little disappointing - I haven't made any $$$ yet so I wasn't expecting to make a ton this trip out (HA).
Rain didn't help either - I shudder to see what today brings at the ring
for the horses, foals and the sellers. I'm sure the buyers will be thrilled with what they get.
Don't let anyone tell you differently - book placement makes a big difference - as does your mare and stallion of course!
Maybe the Tapit filly will make up for it all
(doesn't hurt to dream big does it?)
Thanks again for your kind words and support.
PS - Someone asked me why I put this information on here with the pics and sale prices - said it wasn't good practice - LOL - duh - like you all can't look up the results for yourself! Besides, I was proud of the boys and who knows maybe somone reading this might have actually come and seen them!
"We are the people our parents warned us about" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
Yes, clh, I tried your cellphone but got no answer and I was with a pal and running everywhere.
The weather has a huge impact on this kind of sale and it feels today like it's time to build an ark.
In addition, though, there were an awful lot of mares, in foal, open and broodmare prospects, without broodmare pages, and a lot of offspring out of those kind of mares. The sale was very cluttered. When the stud fee is not covered by the sale of the mare-in-foal, or by the offspring, it could be time to evaluate. Is that mare being bred to the right horse at the right price? Should she be bred at all? Is it time to step down a tad on the fee being paid for that mare's cover?
In a perfect world, those mares wouldn't be accepted into a stallion's book but it has become pretty apparent that there are quite a lot of stallion farms out there who will accept ANY mare for a horse provided she comes with a stud fee attached.
It was encouraging to see the horses of racing age at least bringing some fairly good prices.
The weather has a huge impact on this kind of sale and it feels today like it's time to build an ark.
In addition, though, there were an awful lot of mares, in foal, open and broodmare prospects, without broodmare pages, and a lot of offspring out of those kind of mares. The sale was very cluttered. When the stud fee is not covered by the sale of the mare-in-foal, or by the offspring, it could be time to evaluate. Is that mare being bred to the right horse at the right price? Should she be bred at all? Is it time to step down a tad on the fee being paid for that mare's cover?
In a perfect world, those mares wouldn't be accepted into a stallion's book but it has become pretty apparent that there are quite a lot of stallion farms out there who will accept ANY mare for a horse provided she comes with a stud fee attached.
It was encouraging to see the horses of racing age at least bringing some fairly good prices.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Clh, I am both glad you put all your information on this site and proud of you for doing so. You almost make me ashamed that I did not do so over the last couple years.
What you did was provide first-hand, head-on information concerning how hard this market can be, how the “game” works, and how the industry media “spins” the information.
You ran into many of the things that finally forced us out. It is a terribly, terribly difficult business where one decision, one accident, etc. can have such significant ramifications. I also found that the market tends to lack integrity, intelligence, or knowledge.
I know of a bloodstock agent who is afraid of horses, a couple agents who know little about horses, and even more who know only the rudimentary and obvious points of conformation, and, of course, a vast majority who know nothing or next to nothing about pedigree. Oh… and I am not talking about smaller outfits… These agents do know the art of self-serving deal making… and they also know how to keep their mouths shut when the failures of the industry are attacked (they are the “three monkeys”… see, hear, and speak no evil… well… no truth of the evil, as the case may be). Anyway, what these agents know best is that a majority of those wanting to participate in this industry have to go through them, and many of those with significant resources know less about the industry, horses, and pedigree than they do.
By the way, I am using a loose interpretation of agent, which can include the stallion farms, some boarding farms, the sales companies, and, of course, the dreaded consignors.
Your Scrimshaw probably has as good, if not better, chance of making it to the track and winning than any other yearling in the sale. His sale price was not limited because of him as an individual, rather because he was in a particular book, in a particular sale, by a particular stallion, etc. And,
Of course, many tied so closely to the industry (agents, stallion farm managers, etc.) don’t want you to post your experiences… your experiences show the whole picture. They prefer to point out the home runs… which, by the way, are often back door deals manipulated to boost or “spin” something else (like a stallion…), and which more than likely involved their friend or some other industry insider.
I say good for you. And, if what you have posted has caused just one person to carefully re-examine their entry into this business, then you have done a service more valuable than 5 years worth of industry publications. For this… Thanks!
What you did was provide first-hand, head-on information concerning how hard this market can be, how the “game” works, and how the industry media “spins” the information.
You ran into many of the things that finally forced us out. It is a terribly, terribly difficult business where one decision, one accident, etc. can have such significant ramifications. I also found that the market tends to lack integrity, intelligence, or knowledge.
I know of a bloodstock agent who is afraid of horses, a couple agents who know little about horses, and even more who know only the rudimentary and obvious points of conformation, and, of course, a vast majority who know nothing or next to nothing about pedigree. Oh… and I am not talking about smaller outfits… These agents do know the art of self-serving deal making… and they also know how to keep their mouths shut when the failures of the industry are attacked (they are the “three monkeys”… see, hear, and speak no evil… well… no truth of the evil, as the case may be). Anyway, what these agents know best is that a majority of those wanting to participate in this industry have to go through them, and many of those with significant resources know less about the industry, horses, and pedigree than they do.
By the way, I am using a loose interpretation of agent, which can include the stallion farms, some boarding farms, the sales companies, and, of course, the dreaded consignors.
Your Scrimshaw probably has as good, if not better, chance of making it to the track and winning than any other yearling in the sale. His sale price was not limited because of him as an individual, rather because he was in a particular book, in a particular sale, by a particular stallion, etc. And,
Of course, many tied so closely to the industry (agents, stallion farm managers, etc.) don’t want you to post your experiences… your experiences show the whole picture. They prefer to point out the home runs… which, by the way, are often back door deals manipulated to boost or “spin” something else (like a stallion…), and which more than likely involved their friend or some other industry insider.
I say good for you. And, if what you have posted has caused just one person to carefully re-examine their entry into this business, then you have done a service more valuable than 5 years worth of industry publications. For this… Thanks!
WOW KAL! Thanks!
I am an open-book to some extent and having been screwed many times in this business in the only four years we've been in it by unscrupulous partners, consignors and the like I know how you feel. We have certainly considered getting out and are still thinking about it. Not because we aren't making alot of money but because we've been "screwed with our pants on" to put it in plain and simple terms. I've listened and read the opinions of others that state "do your research, talk to people, etc...." and yes, those that get screwed are to blame - however, if you pay people to assist you and/or make decisions for you as an agent, they are in essence the same as a stock broker in my opinion - making decisions for the betterment of the client. That of course is not always the case which we discovered the hard way. We went into this business knowing it was long-term and knew you needed to start smaller and then work up. We've tried to do that in a professional manner and will continue to do so. If we cannot make it in this business with our integrity intact then we don't want to be in the business. Plain and simple.
We realize we don't have high quality mares (meaning they are not stakes placed or stakes winners) - they are however nice mares with good families that are well conformed, and we breed to stallions that are not out of their range so to speak. However, if the stallions farms do not support the stallions, if they don't like the offspring, if something is wrong with the foal, etc... you begin running into problems. If we were in this strictly for the money when one mare fractured her pelvis, we would have had her put down immediately. We however nursed her for five and half months (and it wasn't that we were that "attached" to her - meaning when her injury occurred we had only had her 3-4 months) but we made a commitment when we purchased her and knew we had to at least try and take care of her. If she hadn't been able to be bred and had lived we still would have taken care of her. We did finally have to have her put down and we knew when the time was right to make that decision. I believe there are MANY people in this business who want to breed nice race horses with good families who will run sound. Not everyone in this business is interested in the home run (although I am sure everyone dreams of it), and not everyone can have a stakes winner. There are only so many stakes races and there are tons of horses - so chances of breeding and/or racing one is fairly slim anyhow.
Most of us do this because we like it and love the horse and the game. Unfortunately alot of good, decent people are run out. I am sorry KAL that you appear to be one of them.
I guess I've rambled here - but I appreciate your comments and if folks are interested I will continue to share our sales experiences, as well as the upcoming foaling season. We're decent folks and have nothing to hide - that may be the downfall of us in this business
I am an open-book to some extent and having been screwed many times in this business in the only four years we've been in it by unscrupulous partners, consignors and the like I know how you feel. We have certainly considered getting out and are still thinking about it. Not because we aren't making alot of money but because we've been "screwed with our pants on" to put it in plain and simple terms. I've listened and read the opinions of others that state "do your research, talk to people, etc...." and yes, those that get screwed are to blame - however, if you pay people to assist you and/or make decisions for you as an agent, they are in essence the same as a stock broker in my opinion - making decisions for the betterment of the client. That of course is not always the case which we discovered the hard way. We went into this business knowing it was long-term and knew you needed to start smaller and then work up. We've tried to do that in a professional manner and will continue to do so. If we cannot make it in this business with our integrity intact then we don't want to be in the business. Plain and simple.
We realize we don't have high quality mares (meaning they are not stakes placed or stakes winners) - they are however nice mares with good families that are well conformed, and we breed to stallions that are not out of their range so to speak. However, if the stallions farms do not support the stallions, if they don't like the offspring, if something is wrong with the foal, etc... you begin running into problems. If we were in this strictly for the money when one mare fractured her pelvis, we would have had her put down immediately. We however nursed her for five and half months (and it wasn't that we were that "attached" to her - meaning when her injury occurred we had only had her 3-4 months) but we made a commitment when we purchased her and knew we had to at least try and take care of her. If she hadn't been able to be bred and had lived we still would have taken care of her. We did finally have to have her put down and we knew when the time was right to make that decision. I believe there are MANY people in this business who want to breed nice race horses with good families who will run sound. Not everyone in this business is interested in the home run (although I am sure everyone dreams of it), and not everyone can have a stakes winner. There are only so many stakes races and there are tons of horses - so chances of breeding and/or racing one is fairly slim anyhow.
Most of us do this because we like it and love the horse and the game. Unfortunately alot of good, decent people are run out. I am sorry KAL that you appear to be one of them.
I guess I've rambled here - but I appreciate your comments and if folks are interested I will continue to share our sales experiences, as well as the upcoming foaling season. We're decent folks and have nothing to hide - that may be the downfall of us in this business
"We are the people our parents warned us about" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
"My occupational hazard is that my occupation is just not around" - Jimmy Buffett
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ratherrapid
- Grade II Winner
- Posts: 1276
- Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:04 pm
- Location: kansas city, missouri
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keejan
im glad ur posting ur sales experience. very educational.
I was very surprised by the $52,000.00 for the birdstone, but unsurprised by the scrimshaw. wish i'd a bin there with $11000 though. i'm wondering, if people would keep posting specifics, maybe whether we could figure out if it's possible to make $$$ on a consistent basis selling horses at the sales. I just wonder how many buyers are out there with $50,000 to spend on a horse.
My own suspicion--and that's all it is--is that most horses in this price range are just trades amoung farms or stables. This is the sort of thing I'd like to have an answer to, because if I'm wrong and there is indeed real money out there buying, then, it would be possible to make big $$$ with the right decisions.
I was very surprised by the $52,000.00 for the birdstone, but unsurprised by the scrimshaw. wish i'd a bin there with $11000 though. i'm wondering, if people would keep posting specifics, maybe whether we could figure out if it's possible to make $$$ on a consistent basis selling horses at the sales. I just wonder how many buyers are out there with $50,000 to spend on a horse.
My own suspicion--and that's all it is--is that most horses in this price range are just trades amoung farms or stables. This is the sort of thing I'd like to have an answer to, because if I'm wrong and there is indeed real money out there buying, then, it would be possible to make big $$$ with the right decisions.
clh-
I want to thank you for your post. This is a great forum. One of the reasons that I come here is for the amount of knowledge and honesty that I find. I have been a long time fan of this sport and I hope to go to school soon so that I can actually get involved in it.
I currently live in Lake Havasu City, Az and the only horse people I have found yet are the guys at the OTB who only refer to horses by their saddle cloth number (not that there is anything wrong with that
). So, I would be interested in hearing more from you anytime.
I want to thank you for your post. This is a great forum. One of the reasons that I come here is for the amount of knowledge and honesty that I find. I have been a long time fan of this sport and I hope to go to school soon so that I can actually get involved in it.
I currently live in Lake Havasu City, Az and the only horse people I have found yet are the guys at the OTB who only refer to horses by their saddle cloth number (not that there is anything wrong with that
). So, I would be interested in hearing more from you anytime.-
geowarrior
- Leading Sire
- Posts: 3593
- Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
- Location: Spokane, WA
Clh, I second those who applaud your postings. I've found this whole discussion very insightful myself. I can't honestly think of how you could be disadvantaged in posting as you have. If it is as easy for horses to get lost in the volumes of catalog pages, bad weather, and everything else that appears to be going on, posting about your horses might have had the effect of drawing them to the attention of someone who might not otherwise have noticed.
Madelyn, you bought another mare? I thought you were just looking.
Madelyn, you bought another mare? I thought you were just looking.
She is a Lord At War mare. I've had that on my "back pocket shopping list" for a long time.
I didn't think I'd actually get a Lord At War daughter for under a thousand. She's a LOVELY mare. I look constantly at the OTTB lists at faraway tracks and am always put off by the shipping costs.
Anyhow, I got Peaceful Treaty, who has been mainly bred to "goats" in the past. She is a VERY nice match for Rocking Trick. Her third dam is by Ribot.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
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serenarider
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clh wrote:WOW KAL! Thanks!
I am an open-book to some extent and having been screwed many times in this business in the only four years we've been in it by unscrupulous partners, consignors and the like I know how you feel. We have certainly considered getting out and are still thinking about it. Not because we aren't making alot of money but because we've been "screwed with our pants on" to put it in plain and simple terms. I've listened and read the opinions of others that state "do your research, talk to people, etc...." and yes, those that get screwed are to blame - however, if you pay people to assist you and/or make decisions for you as an agent, they are in essence the same as a stock broker in my opinion - making decisions for the betterment of the client. That of course is not always the case which we discovered the hard way. We went into this business knowing it was long-term and knew you needed to start smaller and then work up. We've tried to do that in a professional manner and will continue to do so. If we cannot make it in this business with our integrity intact then we don't want to be in the business. Plain and simple.
We realize we don't have high quality mares (meaning they are not stakes placed or stakes winners) - they are however nice mares with good families that are well conformed, and we breed to stallions that are not out of their range so to speak. However, if the stallions farms do not support the stallions, if they don't like the offspring, if something is wrong with the foal, etc... you begin running into problems. If we were in this strictly for the money when one mare fractured her pelvis, we would have had her put down immediately. We however nursed her for five and half months (and it wasn't that we were that "attached" to her - meaning when her injury occurred we had only had her 3-4 months) but we made a commitment when we purchased her and knew we had to at least try and take care of her. If she hadn't been able to be bred and had lived we still would have taken care of her. We did finally have to have her put down and we knew when the time was right to make that decision. I believe there are MANY people in this business who want to breed nice race horses with good families who will run sound. Not everyone in this business is interested in the home run (although I am sure everyone dreams of it), and not everyone can have a stakes winner. There are only so many stakes races and there are tons of horses - so chances of breeding and/or racing one is fairly slim anyhow.
Most of us do this because we like it and love the horse and the game. Unfortunately alot of good, decent people are run out. I am sorry KAL that you appear to be one of them.
I guess I've rambled here - but I appreciate your comments and if folks are interested I will continue to share our sales experiences, as well as the upcoming foaling season. We're decent folks and have nothing to hide - that may be the downfall of us in this business
Read your thread and found it very informative. Thanks for the great insight.
The Scrimshaw was a VERY nicely bodied horse. Just wonder if you'd mind sharing how he and the Birdstone colt matched up conformationally for there to have been such a huge difference in price.
Also, I talked to a few breeders in Ky. a year or so back regarding Scrimshaw and they were very high on him for the stude fee. Just wonder if he is still as highly thought of or has he fallen out of favor?