Watching the early results from the Texas yearling auction I am amazed by the number of Not Solds.(29 out of the first 65 hip nos.) Is this typical of this type of sale?
Using some figures presented by Roger Daly at the seminar yesterday, I estimate it costs about $5300 to prep a yearling for 90 days, pay minimum agent and auction commissions and entry fees, and other costs associated with getting a yearling to the sale. Is this accurate? If so, the have been very few happy sellers so far.
I enjoyed meeting jellaC at the seminar yesterday. I was quite jellaS when she won the collection of references from Blood-Horse. Congrats!
Chuck
Texas Yearling Sale
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
This was really, really a bad sale....and not b/c of the stock being offered. There were some very nice horses here, probabally one of the best catalogs overall in terms of mare page, quality I've seen for F-T Texas.....there just weren't any Buyers to speak of. I hope our legislature can 'GET THIS!' - they haven't shown that they have the least grasp of economics for our industry up to this point so I'm quite pessimistic....but what a blow this sale is. I think a lot of operations will be making some signifigant changes after this.
Here's the results F-T shows for today - I'm not sure but believe that there were so many horses selling after very few bids or RNA'ing that they actually worked through most of tomorrow's catalog!!! Instead of having a bit more than 200/day they only have a few > 100 head to auction off tomorrow. I'll bet it's "whiskey river" at the hotel bars, etc....this was a bloodbath for many that have spent decades working to have stock this good breeding/foaling in state.
8/28/06 THRU 8/29/06
HEAD NOT
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE SOLD MEDIAN
8/28/06 137 1,642,100 11,986 70 5,500
8/29/05
HEAD NOT
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE SOLD MEDIAN
8/29/05 170 1,914,200 11,260 84 5,000
On another note - the Valid Expectations are holding up fairly well and there were lots of them. The Running Stag I saw didn't get much in the way of a bid.
Here's the results F-T shows for today - I'm not sure but believe that there were so many horses selling after very few bids or RNA'ing that they actually worked through most of tomorrow's catalog!!! Instead of having a bit more than 200/day they only have a few > 100 head to auction off tomorrow. I'll bet it's "whiskey river" at the hotel bars, etc....this was a bloodbath for many that have spent decades working to have stock this good breeding/foaling in state.
8/28/06 THRU 8/29/06
HEAD NOT
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE SOLD MEDIAN
8/28/06 137 1,642,100 11,986 70 5,500
8/29/05
HEAD NOT
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE SOLD MEDIAN
8/29/05 170 1,914,200 11,260 84 5,000
On another note - the Valid Expectations are holding up fairly well and there were lots of them. The Running Stag I saw didn't get much in the way of a bid.
The final results for both days - with a correction of the previously released summary -
8/28/06 THRU 8/29/06
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE SOLD MEDIAN
8/28/06 138 1,664,100 12,059 69 5,600
8/29/06 134 1,564,800 11,678 66 5,500
TOTALS
272 3,228,900 11,871 135 5,500
8/29/05 THRU 8/30/05
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE SOLD MEDIAN
8/29/05 170 1,914,200 11,260 84 5,000
8/30/05 153 1,420,900 9,287 91 3,800
TOTALS
323 3,335,100 10,325 175 4,500
HIP #178 WAS INCORRECTLY LISTED AS NOT SOLD ON YESTERDAY'S SUMMARY.
HIP #178 WAS SOLD TO MARK A. CORNETT FOR $22,000 AND IS NOW REFLECTED IN
IN THE ABOVE STATISTICS AS A SOLD HORSE.
Again - throughout the Sale Results the one consistent sire of yearlings getting at least $20k and often more, was Valid Expectations....and there were plenty to bid upon, so I'd say V.E. still reigns as the only sire in Texas one can consider at this point to be a 'commercial' Texas based sire.
8/28/06 THRU 8/29/06
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE SOLD MEDIAN
8/28/06 138 1,664,100 12,059 69 5,600
8/29/06 134 1,564,800 11,678 66 5,500
TOTALS
272 3,228,900 11,871 135 5,500
8/29/05 THRU 8/30/05
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE SOLD MEDIAN
8/29/05 170 1,914,200 11,260 84 5,000
8/30/05 153 1,420,900 9,287 91 3,800
TOTALS
323 3,335,100 10,325 175 4,500
HIP #178 WAS INCORRECTLY LISTED AS NOT SOLD ON YESTERDAY'S SUMMARY.
HIP #178 WAS SOLD TO MARK A. CORNETT FOR $22,000 AND IS NOW REFLECTED IN
IN THE ABOVE STATISTICS AS A SOLD HORSE.
Again - throughout the Sale Results the one consistent sire of yearlings getting at least $20k and often more, was Valid Expectations....and there were plenty to bid upon, so I'd say V.E. still reigns as the only sire in Texas one can consider at this point to be a 'commercial' Texas based sire.
It seemed to me that overall, it was a pretty sorry sale -- I don't know how they figure the numbers between those "out" and those that did not sell, but by my estimate over one-third of the catalogue did not sell. Many sold for barely enough to cover the stud fee -- including some of those Valid Expectations yearlings. At least they sold.... although W. Farish purchased some of the higher priced ones??? One other good stallion at the sale, although with only a few entries was New Trieste. In the end, however, it was the Louisiana buyers and sellers that did the best. That was expected, since they have the purses. Texas will continue to suffer until we change our politics. 
Until then, maybe it is a good thing that Texans can buy good horses cheap, if they have to race for cheap purses?
Bedouwia
Until then, maybe it is a good thing that Texans can buy good horses cheap, if they have to race for cheap purses?
Bedouwia
This doesn't sound like it was such a bad sale....
With 272 of 406 yearlings sold this year, the average price settled at $11,871, up 15% compared to last year, while the median jumped 22.2% to $5,500. Buy-backs dipped from 35.1% to 33.0%.
They only had 33 outs.
An Include filly topped it at $140,000.
With 272 of 406 yearlings sold this year, the average price settled at $11,871, up 15% compared to last year, while the median jumped 22.2% to $5,500. Buy-backs dipped from 35.1% to 33.0%.
They only had 33 outs.
An Include filly topped it at $140,000.
Yes, the numbers this year were better than last year. However, they need to be better than they were. I think it was Madelyn who suggested that to have a successful sale, you need buyers. I could not agree more.
The Texas Thoroughbred Association is now looking at the sale results and planning for next year. What suggestions would some of you make for improving the sale next year?
I have a couple of thoughts, and would appreciate any comments.
1. I think September would be better. It is too damn hot in August.
2. The reality seems to be that this is a southwest regional sale rather than just a Texas sale. Should this be a new marketing focus? Would that make any difference?
3. Any suggestions for getting more buyers? Free Maraguiritas? Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders? Give away a Dodge truck? Whatever.
Bedouwia
The Texas Thoroughbred Association is now looking at the sale results and planning for next year. What suggestions would some of you make for improving the sale next year?
I have a couple of thoughts, and would appreciate any comments.
1. I think September would be better. It is too damn hot in August.
2. The reality seems to be that this is a southwest regional sale rather than just a Texas sale. Should this be a new marketing focus? Would that make any difference?
3. Any suggestions for getting more buyers? Free Maraguiritas? Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders? Give away a Dodge truck? Whatever.
Bedouwia
Thanks for the replies to my question. Yes, Texas needs to improve it's purses, which are held back by by the anti-gambling politicians. There is an election in November and maybe things will improve.
Louisiana, Oklahoma, and Arkansas all have good racing with good purses now. I agree with the idea of trying to think regionally and I will pass it on.
More suggestions, gratefully received.
Bedouwia
Louisiana, Oklahoma, and Arkansas all have good racing with good purses now. I agree with the idea of trying to think regionally and I will pass it on.
More suggestions, gratefully received.
Bedouwia
I hate to go to the Texas sale due to the intense heat in late August. But what are the alternatives? If you wait over a week later, you're competing with Keeneland. And the choices are much wider and deeper in FTK and Keeneland for Oct and Sept, respectively. Maybe Fasig-Tipton could consolidate their Texas sale with the KY sale in October in Lexington. Now that I'd go for. It brings in buyers and horses from all over.
Rocking H
I really thought that as far as the Texas-Breds in this recent F-T Texas Yearling Sale catalog went it was the best overall selection I've seen offered going as far back as the days when the auctions took place at the Polo Club in Houston and there was no pari-mutual betting in the state. Back then you'd see Ky and Fl breds with decent catalog pages and big bids going down on many of them - only to be shipped to a trainer in Florida or a farm in KY for their initial breaking and training to race for their new owners. This year's catalog reflected a steady increase in the number of yearlings with BT under the first three dams, more of it in Open Unrestricted and Graded company than I've ever seen before. It was quite a tribute to the effort and expense that has gone into a 10+ year program to improve the quality of bloodstock in this state as I saw several BT producing/performing mares by Tx-based stallions as well as Ky and Fl sired mares on those pages. The yearlings I saw being inspected were again overall well prepped, familiar with the process of being inspected and handled, exhibiting glossy coats over well muscled - but not exaggerated - bodies and feet in good trim. The atmosphere in most barns was quiet and I heard very little of the franic whinnying and kicking of stall walls that indicates an unhappy and ill-prepared youngster in new and unfamiliar surroundings expressing his stress level. The yearlings I saw being inspected over and over - were of course by the more popular sires and out of the mares with more depth to the catalog page but the quality in general was such that more yearlings should have been getting pulled for inspection. I saw plenty of very handsome, healthy and balanced, althletic types typically worthy of heated bidding in at least the $50k - $100k range, some worth more than that. They were by proven sires and out of either proven producer dams or proven race mares with strong families going back 3 gens behind them. Some were full sibs to proven stakes capable runners.
SO, what was the big difference in this sale and past sales from someone who's attended as an observer for some time? NO BUYERS TO SPEAK OF - I pulled into the Lone Star P-Lot for Visitors to the Sale at 8:20AM Sunday morning before the actual auction and had my choice of front row parking spaces........Folks that tells you right there all you need to know - there was no one there to buy/bid on the horses b/c anyone with prior knowlege/experience of how stinking hot it gets in Texas this time of year and with the intention of seeing a yearling or two, or more, at their freshest and best, would have been there since shortly after dawn to get their work done early in the relative cool of the morning. I walked around through the first 6 barns that morning before 9am and barely counted 6 - 10 yearlings being shown.
I went to the Seminar that was offered and stepped outside at noon - into the absolute oven that place is - again went through the first 3 or 4 barns and there were only marginally more cars/inspections going on.
Here's a business fact that holds sway in any auction conducted anywhere in the world - EBay included. TO get the highest price for an individual you must have sufficient interested and qualified bidders bidding to create bidding pressure. At this sale the number of horses to be sold greatly outnumbered the number of potential buyers. You can take the 'positive spin' put out immediately after the F-T Sale about averages being up, etc. and I'll tell you to take out the KY breds and the LA breds, the two highest and two lowest bids - and see what you have left b/c that's what really happened at this sale. Then reference those prices to the stud fees for those yearlings sires and the minmum cost of raising/prepping them for sale.....pretty darn discouraging if you ask me.
With not enough potential buyers there to bid on over 400 offerings I knew as I drove home that most would go for very low bids relative to their value, perhaps even the minimum and many would RNA if their Sellers stuck by their reserve. I called three owners who race in Texas as I drove home and urged them to get there and find themselves a bargain - that it didn't look like there'd be any bidding pressure to speak of on all but a few in the Sale. GO back and look at the results as to who was doing the buying - pinhookers ruled the day and what a feast it was for them. I'd be willing to bet trainers buying speculatively for themselves/clients were second and a bit timid. I'd be willing to bet that some of the bids recorded were efforts to "protect" the future value of a broodmare and/or her offspring at auction as much as being 'real' bids for the yearling offered. That mare is already out of the state and in foal to a KY stallion and the owner doesn't want that "$5000 or $10,000 yearling on the books to influence subsequent bidders evaluation of her stock. Every decently bred TB mare I know of has been shipped out of state to be bred to a KY or FL stallion or bred to Valid Expectations and speculatively to Littleexpectations OR they've been bred to a La Stallion for a La-Accredited foal. They get in-foal and are often brought back home to the farms where they used to foal out and get bred, but in the winter/early spring - if they don't get put into a Mixed Sale first - they'll go back to KY, FL, and PA, maybe NY or CA, OK, LA or N MX if required for accredidation and foaled out there - or if not required, foaled out in Texas and then shipped out of state to be bred back to a stallion in those more rewarding states. The Texas Stallion Stakes is the only thing really making it worthwhile to produce a Texas Accredited foal and that's if you're into breeding to race - more popularly known as 'financially bleeding to death to race'.
I like the idea of converting this sale to a Regional Sale but it will take more than just changing the name - it will take an all out effort to recruit the better bred Sout Western Regional sired/bred yearlings to this sale and to do that you'll have to do something to get more BUYERS to attend. I wouldn't mind seeing some "regional" stakes races at tracks throughout the SW Region - so that if I do have a Tx-Accredited or a La-Accredited Tb of some talent but probabally not ready for the 'big time' tracks I had some choices of where to race that offspring and some incentive beyond just the one series for Tx-Accredited foals. How something like a Friendship Stakes that's open to both Texas and Louisiana breds? Lousiana tracks and simulcast signal would benefit from having full fields of better bred horses and Texas owners/breeders would have a few more "regional" options vs. only "local" options as to where to aim/place their racing stock. OR even a best of the Region "Triple Crown" with local only races in each state qualifying the top 10 entrants for the series to be held in rotation at spring meet in state "A", a summer meet in state "B" and a fall meet at state "C"....or some similar format....
I might also mention that there is very little advance advertising done in conjunction with these sales - nothing in the paper or in other "AG" or "horsey" avenues. I never see any effort - for instance - at the active tracks to hang a banner that reminds attendees of the "Big Sale" coming up at Lone Star!
SO, what was the big difference in this sale and past sales from someone who's attended as an observer for some time? NO BUYERS TO SPEAK OF - I pulled into the Lone Star P-Lot for Visitors to the Sale at 8:20AM Sunday morning before the actual auction and had my choice of front row parking spaces........Folks that tells you right there all you need to know - there was no one there to buy/bid on the horses b/c anyone with prior knowlege/experience of how stinking hot it gets in Texas this time of year and with the intention of seeing a yearling or two, or more, at their freshest and best, would have been there since shortly after dawn to get their work done early in the relative cool of the morning. I walked around through the first 6 barns that morning before 9am and barely counted 6 - 10 yearlings being shown.
I went to the Seminar that was offered and stepped outside at noon - into the absolute oven that place is - again went through the first 3 or 4 barns and there were only marginally more cars/inspections going on.
Here's a business fact that holds sway in any auction conducted anywhere in the world - EBay included. TO get the highest price for an individual you must have sufficient interested and qualified bidders bidding to create bidding pressure. At this sale the number of horses to be sold greatly outnumbered the number of potential buyers. You can take the 'positive spin' put out immediately after the F-T Sale about averages being up, etc. and I'll tell you to take out the KY breds and the LA breds, the two highest and two lowest bids - and see what you have left b/c that's what really happened at this sale. Then reference those prices to the stud fees for those yearlings sires and the minmum cost of raising/prepping them for sale.....pretty darn discouraging if you ask me.
With not enough potential buyers there to bid on over 400 offerings I knew as I drove home that most would go for very low bids relative to their value, perhaps even the minimum and many would RNA if their Sellers stuck by their reserve. I called three owners who race in Texas as I drove home and urged them to get there and find themselves a bargain - that it didn't look like there'd be any bidding pressure to speak of on all but a few in the Sale. GO back and look at the results as to who was doing the buying - pinhookers ruled the day and what a feast it was for them. I'd be willing to bet trainers buying speculatively for themselves/clients were second and a bit timid. I'd be willing to bet that some of the bids recorded were efforts to "protect" the future value of a broodmare and/or her offspring at auction as much as being 'real' bids for the yearling offered. That mare is already out of the state and in foal to a KY stallion and the owner doesn't want that "$5000 or $10,000 yearling on the books to influence subsequent bidders evaluation of her stock. Every decently bred TB mare I know of has been shipped out of state to be bred to a KY or FL stallion or bred to Valid Expectations and speculatively to Littleexpectations OR they've been bred to a La Stallion for a La-Accredited foal. They get in-foal and are often brought back home to the farms where they used to foal out and get bred, but in the winter/early spring - if they don't get put into a Mixed Sale first - they'll go back to KY, FL, and PA, maybe NY or CA, OK, LA or N MX if required for accredidation and foaled out there - or if not required, foaled out in Texas and then shipped out of state to be bred back to a stallion in those more rewarding states. The Texas Stallion Stakes is the only thing really making it worthwhile to produce a Texas Accredited foal and that's if you're into breeding to race - more popularly known as 'financially bleeding to death to race'.
I like the idea of converting this sale to a Regional Sale but it will take more than just changing the name - it will take an all out effort to recruit the better bred Sout Western Regional sired/bred yearlings to this sale and to do that you'll have to do something to get more BUYERS to attend. I wouldn't mind seeing some "regional" stakes races at tracks throughout the SW Region - so that if I do have a Tx-Accredited or a La-Accredited Tb of some talent but probabally not ready for the 'big time' tracks I had some choices of where to race that offspring and some incentive beyond just the one series for Tx-Accredited foals. How something like a Friendship Stakes that's open to both Texas and Louisiana breds? Lousiana tracks and simulcast signal would benefit from having full fields of better bred horses and Texas owners/breeders would have a few more "regional" options vs. only "local" options as to where to aim/place their racing stock. OR even a best of the Region "Triple Crown" with local only races in each state qualifying the top 10 entrants for the series to be held in rotation at spring meet in state "A", a summer meet in state "B" and a fall meet at state "C"....or some similar format....
I might also mention that there is very little advance advertising done in conjunction with these sales - nothing in the paper or in other "AG" or "horsey" avenues. I never see any effort - for instance - at the active tracks to hang a banner that reminds attendees of the "Big Sale" coming up at Lone Star!
I started this thread by wondering about the number of no-sales at the begining of the sale. I have since learned that the sale site experienced a deluge that first morning. Since many Texans have not seen any significant rain in months, they were afraid the might be washed away and were delayed in getting to the sale.
As was posted by others above, my contacts felt the sale results were quite similar to last year. And most felt that the quality horses were well received.
Some food for thought:
Overall Averages by Horses Sold
State # Sold Average Price
Arkansas 4 $31,050
Florida 7 $11,329
Kentucky 26 $11,500
Louisiana 98 $14,173
New Mex 8 $6,713
New York 3 $9,000
Oklahoma 8 $18,725
Ohio 2 $14,000
Texas 116 $9,301
Total 272 $11,871
Of the top 27 sellers (top ten percent), 10 were from Louisiana, 10 were from Texas and one was from OK, 4 were from KY and 2 were from Arkansas. Stallions with multiple sales in the top 10% included Valid Expectations (6 averaging $47500), Unbridle Time (2 averaging $60000), and Mutakddin (2 averaging $46250).
The Fasig Tipton Saratoga Open yearling sale page reported the following results:
8/15/06
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE Not SOLD MEDIAN
8/15/06 70 680,500 9,721 63 5,350
The Texas yearling sale compares favorably with these results.
I am not sure what all this means but blaming the slots or lack thereof is taking the easy way out. An article in this month's AQHA Journal deserves reading. (Dollar $ign$, Sept 2006 page 54) In this article the author warns that long term demographic, psychographic, and technographic changes driven by urbanization and aging baby boomers will negatively influence the horse market, particularly at the lower levels, for years to come. Lower prices are a result of a change in the supply demand balance. Unfortunately, producing a better quality product may not be the answer as the increased supply will only disrupt the market equilibrium in the premium segments leading to still lower prices. This dynamic will hold true in both the recreational and the racing markets.
Horse racing is an unusual business in that the horse is only used an aide to generate revenue from gambling. The house and the state both profit from the wagering by taking a percentage of the handle. Purses are a necessary cost of the house since without adaquate purses it would be difficult to fill races. But once the races are full, they have little incentive to increase purses because in most cases, the handle is independant of the purse. Rather, it is a function of the number of bettors (attendence) on and off the track. On the surface, the prudent manager would rather invest in premiums to increase attendence rather than increase purses. This is why you see free concerts or fireworks being offered after the last race. This may also be why there has been an increase in dog racing. It is certainly much cheaper to fill a card with greyhounds than with TB's or QH's. Yet the state and the house still get their cut of the handle!
OTB and Internet Gambling pose additional threats to this business. By diverting handle from the track they reduce the tracks profitability and viability. They also lessen the need for live races as the market need for a gambling medium has been met more cost efficiently. It is more cost efficient to broadcast a single race from one track to the entire country (world) than it is to run ten races at ten tracks paying ten purses.. You will hear an arguement that by revenue sharing these types of wagering may increase purses, but remember my hypothesis is we need to increase the number of horses demanded!
So the key here is to create more consumer demand for our product, which is the opportunity to wager. By increasing demand for this product we increase demand for horses which changes the supply demand dynamics in a positive direction for the breeder. Thus slots to subsidize higher purses is not beneficial. Instead, use the slots to subsidize additional races per day, racing days, and race tracks. This would increase the demand for horses.
I hope I haven't bored anyone too much with my ramblings. I didn't paint a pretty picture and I am not very optimistic about the future. I look forward to your comments and insights.
Regards
Chuck
Edited to reformat Saratoga table.
As was posted by others above, my contacts felt the sale results were quite similar to last year. And most felt that the quality horses were well received.
Some food for thought:
Overall Averages by Horses Sold
State # Sold Average Price
Arkansas 4 $31,050
Florida 7 $11,329
Kentucky 26 $11,500
Louisiana 98 $14,173
New Mex 8 $6,713
New York 3 $9,000
Oklahoma 8 $18,725
Ohio 2 $14,000
Texas 116 $9,301
Total 272 $11,871
Of the top 27 sellers (top ten percent), 10 were from Louisiana, 10 were from Texas and one was from OK, 4 were from KY and 2 were from Arkansas. Stallions with multiple sales in the top 10% included Valid Expectations (6 averaging $47500), Unbridle Time (2 averaging $60000), and Mutakddin (2 averaging $46250).
The Fasig Tipton Saratoga Open yearling sale page reported the following results:
8/15/06
DATE SOLD AMOUNT AVERAGE Not SOLD MEDIAN
8/15/06 70 680,500 9,721 63 5,350
The Texas yearling sale compares favorably with these results.
I am not sure what all this means but blaming the slots or lack thereof is taking the easy way out. An article in this month's AQHA Journal deserves reading. (Dollar $ign$, Sept 2006 page 54) In this article the author warns that long term demographic, psychographic, and technographic changes driven by urbanization and aging baby boomers will negatively influence the horse market, particularly at the lower levels, for years to come. Lower prices are a result of a change in the supply demand balance. Unfortunately, producing a better quality product may not be the answer as the increased supply will only disrupt the market equilibrium in the premium segments leading to still lower prices. This dynamic will hold true in both the recreational and the racing markets.
Horse racing is an unusual business in that the horse is only used an aide to generate revenue from gambling. The house and the state both profit from the wagering by taking a percentage of the handle. Purses are a necessary cost of the house since without adaquate purses it would be difficult to fill races. But once the races are full, they have little incentive to increase purses because in most cases, the handle is independant of the purse. Rather, it is a function of the number of bettors (attendence) on and off the track. On the surface, the prudent manager would rather invest in premiums to increase attendence rather than increase purses. This is why you see free concerts or fireworks being offered after the last race. This may also be why there has been an increase in dog racing. It is certainly much cheaper to fill a card with greyhounds than with TB's or QH's. Yet the state and the house still get their cut of the handle!
OTB and Internet Gambling pose additional threats to this business. By diverting handle from the track they reduce the tracks profitability and viability. They also lessen the need for live races as the market need for a gambling medium has been met more cost efficiently. It is more cost efficient to broadcast a single race from one track to the entire country (world) than it is to run ten races at ten tracks paying ten purses.. You will hear an arguement that by revenue sharing these types of wagering may increase purses, but remember my hypothesis is we need to increase the number of horses demanded!
So the key here is to create more consumer demand for our product, which is the opportunity to wager. By increasing demand for this product we increase demand for horses which changes the supply demand dynamics in a positive direction for the breeder. Thus slots to subsidize higher purses is not beneficial. Instead, use the slots to subsidize additional races per day, racing days, and race tracks. This would increase the demand for horses.
I hope I haven't bored anyone too much with my ramblings. I didn't paint a pretty picture and I am not very optimistic about the future. I look forward to your comments and insights.
Regards
Chuck
Edited to reformat Saratoga table.
Last edited by cewright on Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.