From today's TB Times:
Florida Senate bill aims to prevent unfair practices at horse sales
A Florida agritourism bill, which includes provisions giving the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Affairs the power to examine horse sale procedures and adopt rules, if needed, to prevent unfair or deceptive trade practices, was passed on Wednesday by the Florida State Senate Committee on Community Affairs.
Senate Bill 2754 now will go to the Senate General Government Appropriations Committee for consideration.
“We look forward to helping buyers and consignors establish rules and regulations that everyone will feel comfortable with and ensure that all sales are fair and equitable,” said Richard E. Hancock, executive vice president of the Florida Thoroughbred Breeders and Owners Association. “We also would like to thank the Department of Agriculture for providing a forum for the discussion of this aspect or our industry.”
The Florida Thoroughbred Breeders’ and Owners’ Association, Ocala Breeders’ Sales Co., and the Florida Horse Council all support the amendment in its current form.
Ruination for Florida 2yo sale consignors
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
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CA Michael
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Ruination for Florida 2yo sale consignors
Convictions without Courage are worthless
Yer headline is a silly cheap-shot, I almost expected better. 
Propaganda aside, I applaud the state of Florida for taking steps that many other states (New York and California included) have too long overlooked. And Michael, by regulating yearling and two-year old sales, rather than spelling their demise (if there is enough "teeth" in the law), this type of legislation will make Florida an even better place to buy young horses. Having all parties (the breeders and consignors) in the mix assures fairer and better practices across the board: weenling-yearling-two year old. The NATC should lend a hand. The fact that OBS is a part of the solution as well as the Florida Breeders’ and Owners’ is fantastic for eveyone involved in buying and selling horses in Florida.
Big thumbs up.
Propaganda aside, I applaud the state of Florida for taking steps that many other states (New York and California included) have too long overlooked. And Michael, by regulating yearling and two-year old sales, rather than spelling their demise (if there is enough "teeth" in the law), this type of legislation will make Florida an even better place to buy young horses. Having all parties (the breeders and consignors) in the mix assures fairer and better practices across the board: weenling-yearling-two year old. The NATC should lend a hand. The fact that OBS is a part of the solution as well as the Florida Breeders’ and Owners’ is fantastic for eveyone involved in buying and selling horses in Florida.
Big thumbs up.
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serenarider
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I was reading the Wire to Wire yesterday and saw a add in there for a consignor that had I think 7 in the sale right now. There add stated we do it the Natural way. Oats, hay and water no steriods at all. It also went on to say you could have there stock drug tested if you like. I looked up a couple last night and they ran great times. 10.2 and 10.3.
Now if they really did not shove all the equipoise in them and god knows what alse some of the 2yr old sellers do. I give thease people a huge kuddo. But I would like to have one of them drug tested;)
Now if they really did not shove all the equipoise in them and god knows what alse some of the 2yr old sellers do. I give thease people a huge kuddo. But I would like to have one of them drug tested;)
Not to mention the baggage some horses come with as yearlings serenarider. I have to applaud the Florida Breeders, who know the issues and are willing to take a stand. The trickle down effect of "cleaner" horses, from birth throughout life can only strengthen the breed, and is of benefit to everyone, owner and 2YO consignors alike. I hope other states take similar action, because Cali, NY and KY are falling far behind in this exact type of regulation. Florida, by way of Breeders and Consignors, will become the Flagship state for Breeding and selling "clean" horses at auction.
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CA Michael
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My hat is off and my body bowing to the initiators of this legislation. Jess Jackson's infiltration of the nasties played in KY is having wide ramifications for the rest of the country. I hope Barretts Sales in CA gets on the bandwagon, too. Until buyers can believe they are getting a square deal, there will likely not be as many of them as time passes.
However, I don't see the consignors stepping up to the plate behind this clean up movement. Where is the NATC? Where are the Hartley/De Renzo's, the Murray Smiths, Becky Thomas', Brocklebanks and McKathans? My guess: buying each other drinks as they strategize on how to beat the system, again. Can't imagine they are smiling over the crackdown.
However, I don't see the consignors stepping up to the plate behind this clean up movement. Where is the NATC? Where are the Hartley/De Renzo's, the Murray Smiths, Becky Thomas', Brocklebanks and McKathans? My guess: buying each other drinks as they strategize on how to beat the system, again. Can't imagine they are smiling over the crackdown.
Convictions without Courage are worthless
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CA Michael
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I hope it's sooner than that Michael. I am paying for data from a well known source (I will give all the specifics as soon as I get it), and it is quite comprehensive (not to mention expensive)! I suspect it will be ready this week. With 6 inches of water in my basement, a son with a broken arm from soccer, it's been a bit of mayhem here! Anyway, it will probably take a bit more time to get all of it compiled and then a few days for complete analysis. If you're interested, I would be happy to send you the raw data as soon as it's complete (before I rifle through it) for your own use. Just PM me.
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CA Michael
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Thanks, I'll wait for your sanitized version. Sorry to hear of your son's broken arm, I've been there and done that as a parent too.
I too am busy in compiling historical sales and performance data for the May Barretts 2yo sales. A parallel study to the one we put together for the March Barretts sale. BTW I have a 2yo in the sale so if I were really smart I'd be pumping the sales successes as much as Barretts does. Then again, a lot of the fastest workouts at the recent Keeneland sale didn't translate into high prices, so maybe the buyers are getting the picture on their own. One look into their wallets should be enough to see the obvious fallacy of the process.
I too am busy in compiling historical sales and performance data for the May Barretts 2yo sales. A parallel study to the one we put together for the March Barretts sale. BTW I have a 2yo in the sale so if I were really smart I'd be pumping the sales successes as much as Barretts does. Then again, a lot of the fastest workouts at the recent Keeneland sale didn't translate into high prices, so maybe the buyers are getting the picture on their own. One look into their wallets should be enough to see the obvious fallacy of the process.
Convictions without Courage are worthless
I talked to several buyers at the Keeneland sale. Most had a problem getting a grip on exactly what they were looking at, the breezes on the Poly and the freaky times the first day was confusing, it seems. As for sales successes, I think the top of the market is slowing, and the market as a whole seems to be coming back down to earth. A good thing, but as a pinhooker (actually someone who employs the "real" pinhookers) it's going to be a dicey market to gauge for next year. Not sure how the yearling sales will be affected, but anything besides the stratospheric silliness in the markets lately is a good thing for buyers. Sellers will have to be better, smarter and more selective. The Coolmore/Darley riff will also be interesting to follow and play into.
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serenarider
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Not to mention the baggage some horses come with as yearlings serenarider
Yes this I know to well
But I can tell you this I never "Pump" up my personal babies for any sell. They sell for what they are. And I have done quite well. But I am a 1 person operation. I handle the foal from birth everyday. Is it a 24 hr job. You bet your ass it is. But I know I can sleep at night with knowing I did everything for them I could. The best feed the best hay the best handing;) Maybe that's why I sell allot before they even go to the sale.
Masking problems is one thing I do not agree with. To me it's cheating. That is one thing I am not a "cheater". I rather someone not take a chance on a one of my weanlings or yearlings beacuse of one thing or another. Then do a bunch of screws and wires and never disclose it.
Anyway I just got back from looking at that persons stock and they look great. If they did not pump them up full of crap then God I hope they do well this sale because they deserve it.
Dray im so sorry to hear about your sons arm.
I hope he feels better soon.Thanks serenarider, my son is doing fine... bummed about missing soccer, but other than that, he's great.
It sounds like you prep your horses well. Helps them go on to be sounder horses I am sure. Its interesting, and there is so much to learn about the sales. With the 2YO sales especially, there is this demand for speed, and demand for perfection in regards to the vet check. In the Adena Sale, they have horses with less "sprinty" pedigrees (like El Prado), and they do not breeze the horses hard, and they go on to race and win. It has to be looked at. They too control them as yearlings, so much like yourself, they can watch the full cycle.
Look at this: http://adenaracingventure.com/About.aspx?id=5
So there is historical data suggesting that taking it easier on the horses gets them to the track, and they go on to do quite well. Balance this with the breeders need for size, and the consignors need to breeze the horse quickly to make money at the other sales, and you have a dilemma. I think Florida is taking steps toward regulation, and that could help both yearling and 2YO buyers. I also think small changes, like outlawing the whip at breeze shows might help too. Testing yearlings and 2YO's for alterations and "chemistry" is a step in the right direction. Testing for excesss can only help assure the horse buyers of a sound, clean slate. The truth is that some horses are big without help of chemistry, and some horses breeze fast without being stepped on. As a seller of two year olds, it would greatly benefit me to know what is what with the yearlings I buy. It benefits my buyers too, that I make sure the horses I breeze and sell turn out to be good horses. There is another, very important driver that makes me even more careful about the horses I sell. The ones that do not sell, I race. I have to be fair about the reserves I set, and honest about the ability of these young horses. Honest with myself.
Example: This year I was selling 5.25 horses. I sold 3.25, and had to keep 2. One of them, a Northern Afleet colt, breezed fantastic (21.4/21.3) and was a beautiful individual. I loved him. So when it came time to sell, he cost about 95k, so that was my reserve. The public thought otherwise. So he is mine, and I am thrilled. He is now with Nick Zito, his name is SACRED ICON, and hes the shiznit. If I had overdone my horses, I would pay the price. My other horse (her name is FOR FREE) breezed a bullet, 21.1 in a 35 mph headwind, and went unsold. My guess, besides being the last hip in the sale
was OCD's. She is back in Florida, doing great... and should be training ready in couple months. Again, no rush.
So that brings up another point. At the risk of pissing off Breeders and pinhookers, maybe the 2Yo sales and Yearling sales could be backed up by 1-3 months. What could it hurt? Sure, there the extra carrying costs, but thats the game, no? Many people dont even like the Triple Crown trail because it pushes too many horses at a young age to excel. It all needs to be thrown in the mix.
Cheers...
It sounds like you prep your horses well. Helps them go on to be sounder horses I am sure. Its interesting, and there is so much to learn about the sales. With the 2YO sales especially, there is this demand for speed, and demand for perfection in regards to the vet check. In the Adena Sale, they have horses with less "sprinty" pedigrees (like El Prado), and they do not breeze the horses hard, and they go on to race and win. It has to be looked at. They too control them as yearlings, so much like yourself, they can watch the full cycle.
Look at this: http://adenaracingventure.com/About.aspx?id=5
So there is historical data suggesting that taking it easier on the horses gets them to the track, and they go on to do quite well. Balance this with the breeders need for size, and the consignors need to breeze the horse quickly to make money at the other sales, and you have a dilemma. I think Florida is taking steps toward regulation, and that could help both yearling and 2YO buyers. I also think small changes, like outlawing the whip at breeze shows might help too. Testing yearlings and 2YO's for alterations and "chemistry" is a step in the right direction. Testing for excesss can only help assure the horse buyers of a sound, clean slate. The truth is that some horses are big without help of chemistry, and some horses breeze fast without being stepped on. As a seller of two year olds, it would greatly benefit me to know what is what with the yearlings I buy. It benefits my buyers too, that I make sure the horses I breeze and sell turn out to be good horses. There is another, very important driver that makes me even more careful about the horses I sell. The ones that do not sell, I race. I have to be fair about the reserves I set, and honest about the ability of these young horses. Honest with myself.
Example: This year I was selling 5.25 horses. I sold 3.25, and had to keep 2. One of them, a Northern Afleet colt, breezed fantastic (21.4/21.3) and was a beautiful individual. I loved him. So when it came time to sell, he cost about 95k, so that was my reserve. The public thought otherwise. So he is mine, and I am thrilled. He is now with Nick Zito, his name is SACRED ICON, and hes the shiznit. If I had overdone my horses, I would pay the price. My other horse (her name is FOR FREE) breezed a bullet, 21.1 in a 35 mph headwind, and went unsold. My guess, besides being the last hip in the sale
was OCD's. She is back in Florida, doing great... and should be training ready in couple months. Again, no rush.
So that brings up another point. At the risk of pissing off Breeders and pinhookers, maybe the 2Yo sales and Yearling sales could be backed up by 1-3 months. What could it hurt? Sure, there the extra carrying costs, but thats the game, no? Many people dont even like the Triple Crown trail because it pushes too many horses at a young age to excel. It all needs to be thrown in the mix.
Cheers...
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serenarider
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It's so refreshing to hear some of your ideas Dray. Sometimes it gets so upseting this game. At the pre breeze last friday. Yes PRE BREEZE they had 6 break down in one day at OBS. Nothing is like watching a prep breeze and see them drop one after the other. 
I know for me I would not have a problem pushing back the sales a bit. Nothing drives me more nuts then to see a weanling go from a OCt sale then see him again in a Jan sale knowing they have pumped him up full of crap. I can not understand why they do this. Other then Money. and a quick buck.
I love when people say, but at the sale he was so good. The horse was big, muscled, great temperment ect.. Then bring that same horse home who you paid God knows how much for and The horse is out of his mind beacuse they have druged him up to be a Arnold Swartzenager physique. Then drugged him down in order for him to stand still long enough to be shown..
I really think nothing will change untill the buyers demand for a change. lol But I'm just ranting i'm just one fish in a huge pond
I know for me I would not have a problem pushing back the sales a bit. Nothing drives me more nuts then to see a weanling go from a OCt sale then see him again in a Jan sale knowing they have pumped him up full of crap. I can not understand why they do this. Other then Money. and a quick buck.
I love when people say, but at the sale he was so good. The horse was big, muscled, great temperment ect.. Then bring that same horse home who you paid God knows how much for and The horse is out of his mind beacuse they have druged him up to be a Arnold Swartzenager physique. Then drugged him down in order for him to stand still long enough to be shown..
I really think nothing will change untill the buyers demand for a change. lol But I'm just ranting i'm just one fish in a huge pond
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CA Michael
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