Commercial sales tips...

[TB Dreamin']

Hi-I read thru this Sales topic and it sounds like so many of you are going to different sales, have horses in different sales, etc., that I am wondering if you could offer some tips on how to start for a newbie.

I have my first "commercial" colt, born 5/07, and I'm really not sure how to pick from the plethora of Sales Co.'s in Central Ky, don't really understand which sale would be best for the colt (although his Momma came out of the last book of the Jan. Mixed Sale at Keeneland-so maybe that should tell me something?!), and I will have my vet evaluate him-to make sure he should be sold at all, but where should I start?

It's not fun for me not to be involved, as this is my dream. I can get him looking his best, I can do the grooming, handling, etc., everything but put him in the sale, so is there a Sales Co. that will be forgiving to me wanting to be involved?

By the way, I'm not a dope, I have broke, made, and sold horses my whole life, just for another sport, so I do have a clue, but just don't know the in's and out's of this commercial TB world, I so desperately desire to be in...hee hee...

Help me out, guys!
Thanks-
Amy

[sunday_silence]

Some people prep their babies for the sales themselves and only send them to the consignor right before the sale. Others pay the consignor to prep. You might want to start out by finding your consignor. There are plenty of reputable consignors and I'm sure the people here will make some recommendations. As long as you feel comfortable with your consignor and feel they are trustworthy to market your colt and get you the best price possible, not just take your money and leave you with an unsold horse.

A good consignor will help you select the right sale for your colt and get him in the right book for his target audience if it's a large sale. You didn't mention his breeding, but if he's by a new young sire and has good conformation, the Fasig July sale might be a good spot for him. He'll fit somewhere in the Kee Sept. sale, regardless, but it'll be important that he sell on one of the days when buyers who are shopping for a horse like him are there.

For example, people who are looking for a good quality $25,000 colt and don't care about commercial pedigrees are not going to be shopping during the first few days of the sale. There will be yearlings who go for lower prices during the select sessions, but they are generally very well bred individuals who do not vet or who have other issues. The huge money leaves after the first couple of days, the big money leaves after the first couple of books, the middle market starts coming in about that time and then the small money is there. Of course, there's a lot of overlap, too, smaller money people looking out for bargains, etc. You just want to try to get your horse in where the most people in his target market range will be shopping.

There's also the Fasig Oct. yearling sale, if your horse is pretty light on pedigree. And there are also the options of selling in one of the fall sales as a weanling or the Jan/Feb sales as a short yearling.

Generally, the Fasig sales are smaller than the Keeneland ones. Horses can get lost in the shuffle at either place of course, but it's something to keep in mind. That's why I think the best place to start is with a good consignor who will give you their experienced advice on where to place your horse.

Hope that helped

[TB Dreamin']

Sunday_Silence,

Thank you that helped ALOT. I really hope people will give recommendations, because there are SO many companies here, I don't really know where to start.

Now, how do you know when the $25,000 spenders will be looking for a good specimen that may be lighter in pedigree? Could you explain that a bit more?

Well, actually, this will probably help. The mom is Verreaux, by Silver Hawk, o/o Glaze. Her '07 colt is by Najran. He had a rough start, but is a very large/tall colt and is amazingly correct. He is right at a month old now. Our vet said not to supplement him w/anything yet, as he is so big and growing so fast, he's afraid if we supplement, we'll be looking for problems to occur, I assummed w/OCD's and Epiphysitis.

It sounds like once I find my consignor, they will come out and evaluate the colt and help decide what book or sale to put him in? I was also going to have my vet evaluate him also, now, and see what he thinks.

Is it ever better to sell privately via Starquine or something like that? Do the farms that stand the stallion ever have any interest in mentoring or looking at the foal or even buying or marketing the foals of the stallions they stand?

Do you know roughly what it costs to have the Sales Co. sell the colt? And roughly what does FT and Keeneland charge? My husband thinks I should just do the whole thing myself, which does appeal to me, but I assume that must not be a good idea, because I don't see very many people doing that. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks for writing back. When you haven't actually sold one there's SO much to learn. Oh, I did see that the latest Bloodhorse has a feature article on yearling prep, so that's great.

Last thing, this colt is LATE (5-13-07) so I assummed that I should avoid weaner sales and shoot for the '08 yearling sales, is that a correct line of thinking?

Thanks again, in advance.
Amy

[clh]

TB Dreaming - this is on another thread here somewhere - perhaps under my colts from last year Sept Sales or something but here is what I did about this time last year and so far, I've had two consignors come and look at my weanlings for this year.

Find four or five consignors that you think you might want to interview and invite them out to your farm. Since I'm in OH those that refused to drive up last year were crossed off my list automatically - didn't want them selling my babies if they couldn't come and see them if they only wanted to send me the entry form. Have a list of questions prepared for them (i.e., what do you think of the foal, what do you think of the dam, family, sire?, where do you see this foal selling, what book do you see this foal selling in, etc....) After each one comes out see which one you liked and felt comfortable with. That will give you a starting point.

Some of my foals from last year were entered in November and then scratched and put in January at Keeneland. One was held and will sell as a yearling in September. The key is to find the people you feel will work for you.

I've sent photos to the stallion farms on my babies. I've gotten calls back from some of them, last year one farm came up and looked at one of their foals and this year someone came and looked at one of the farm's stallion's babies. Depends on the stallions - but it certainly wouldn't hurt to clean him up and take a good picture and mail it to the stallion farm so they can see what their stallion is producing.

I always look to see how many a consignor is selling - although some of the larger consignments do a great job - they are too big for the quality of my mares/foals and I will end of being lost in the shuffle - don't want that to happen. I also want them to know who I am when I go to the barn to see who has looked at my foal.

Each consignor has different rates so make sure you find out what they charge as well.

Hope this helps - you can PM if you like and I can give you some specific names if you'd like

[Pete]

Hi Amy,

You’re getting some good advice from Sunday Silence and CLH.

Normally the consignor and Auction house each get 5% of the sale with a minimum that may be $500 or $1,000 depending upon the sale. There’s a sales entry fee that can range upwards of $300. There are sales expenses that the consignor should be able to detail for you but they will include x-rays (@$550), day rate (@$75/day x4) watchman, etc. Expenses at 2yo sales are higher.

Your first order of business is, as both posters have mentioned, to find a consignor. You’re not looking for someone to gush over your foal, you need honesty. In both the consignor and the sale that you choose you’re looking to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

A common problem that people have when they do their own prep is that they don’t get on the same page with their consignor. Find out what they require and then honestly determine if you can do the job. A mistake that people with experience in handling horses have is that they assume that thoroughbreds are the same as other breeds and they’re not. Be specific in discussing prep and sales plans and be honest with yourself.

Perhaps the only benefit of the past few years is that buyers now look at May foals with less prejudice than they have in the past. Conformation is now king at the sales. A good consignor will give you a projection and anticipation of what they believe your foal will look like and sell for.

Good luck.

Regards,

Pete

[clh]

Pete - you said it much better than I Amy - you have an idea of what your foal looks like - my idea was not to have someone come and blow smoke up my arse just to get my business - if he/she was crappy - go ahead and tell me that I'd rather you be blunt and honest than try and fool me into thinking I have something that YOU can sell that no one else can - when in fact you can't

[sunday_silence]

If your foal is exceptionally good-looking and vets well, he can still sell well even though his breeding isn't the most commercial, if marketed properly. That is the key. You will get a better price if you use a consignor, but it is more expensive to use a consignor. I know someone who last year did not use a consignor. She had a pretty non-commercial yearling and lost money all told, but did get the horse sold to a good new owner. However, she probably would've still lost money even if she'd used a consignor, so it was more or less a wash.

A consignor like Taylor Made is going to cost a pretty penny. They do a great job, although some can certainly find fault with their system. They sell a huge number of head, which has its advantages and disadvantages. One advantage to that is that more people will probably see your horse. Some buyers come up and ask to see every colt in the consignment or every filly. They'll do their best to get your horse sold, even if it's back-channel, but it'll cost you.

This is why it's important to figure out how much you think the horse should bring, minimum, and go from there. Your consignor should be able to help you with all of this. You just have to try to get the horse seen by as many people as possible who are looking for horses in his price range.

Keeneland's yearling sale catalogs horses based on pedigree and conformation. The first few books have the best pedigrees, with the first book being the most select horses. Buyers who want those kinds of horse show up on those days and then leave. The middle market horses have decent to nice pedigrees and the people who are buying them care more about whether or not they look the part than if their breeding is commercial. The least commercial yearlings go in the later books.

Pinhookers shop throughout the sale. All pinhookers aren't looking for exactly the same kind of horse. They all want a horse they think they can turn around for a profit later, but some are looking for high-end bargains, while others just look for athletes who they believe will breeze fast at the 2-year-old sales, etc.

See if Hopewell will come out and look at your colt. They have a decent sized consignment operation themselves and have an additional interest in seeing their stallion's offspring sell well. That may be who you want to use as your consignor, but maybe not.

[springboro]

TB Dreamin, who is the sire of this colt?

[madelyn]

.......Well, actually, this will probably help. The mom is Verreaux, by Silver Hawk, o/o Glaze. Her '07 colt is by Najran.....

[madelyn]

I had been meaning to drop in my two cents here. I've been hanging around the sales for about four years mainly for research. I am a certified equine appraiser.

I've certainly seen lots of shenanigans. Beware of the consignor that insists you send your colt to their farm at $XX per day for XX days prior, pushes you to BC nominate, etc., without giving you a fair idea of what YOU wlll get out of it. Part of the "big" consignment issue is numbers. They need numbers whether or not the quality is there. Some of those consignors, if you look like a little fish you will be charged up the butt for every little thing, treated like dirt, and be lucky to go home with $500.

Last February, I had two Indiana bred 2yo fillies, and a couple of 3yo's. I'm also an old horsey type, ridden all my life, lots of showing, also raced QH's back in my skinny days as a jockey. I took my motley bunch to the F-T Feb sale to have the experience consigning my own. I will tell you, it is VERY hard work. You have to have your horses fed and stalls mucked by about 6am. Going with just one horse would be lunacy, and you can't do it alone. My sister came along (also a horse girl, great groom, and she is an aesthetician/beautician so is MARVELOUS with manes and tails and stuff). We worked our butts off and were SO TIRED that we slept through the entire mess at the Red Roof Inn -- they had a murder that night in one of the other rooms.

I will probably take some Rocking Trick yearlings to the October sale this year. We are prepping them NOW. If you want to ride along with us you would be welcome to do so. We might even be able to pay you. PM me if that interests you.

Now, as to your colt. Something not mentioned above is stud fee. It does impact, to an extent, where your yearling might place. You get a bump on that if the mare has a lot of blacktype, which is not the case here. Ditto if it is a young mare/young family with a page that could improve a lot.. pinhookers like that a lot. If I were you, I would take a serious look, yourself, at Najran's numbers. If you can sell the colt privately this year and come out ahead, jump all over that. To put one through Keeneland is $1,000 minimum, plus x-rays and scope ($700 or so), Vaccs, EVA, etc. F-T OCT is a bit less at $850. Keeping the colt for a whole year has its risks.. anything can happen.

Regarding the stud farm as a consignor, as an appraiser I watch those sales with a very critical eye to see if they have done a phony deal to try to help support their stallion. If you analyze the sales of offspring of a particular stallion, and the only "good" sales were by the stud farm as the consignor, well that is not a good omen.

Now here's what is GOOD about your situation. You picked up the mare in foal for$1K and are not on the hook for a stud fee, so you have "nowhere to go but up.." The downside is that a consignor might look at that and push you into a corner where you owe/have spent about $4K to get $4500 or so for the colt. I know so many people that has happened to.

[geowarrior]

Madelyn, you mentioned before that you are a certified equine appraiser. Just out of interest, what sort of process besides everything you mentioned in your post, did you have to go through to obtain that certification?

[madelyn]

It started out with a week-long course given in a couple of locations, I went to Wichita. Believe me, that is just a starting point. You select an area to focus on, and begin to study that area. In my case, I chose Thoroughbreds. Then there is a process.. you submit appraisals you have done, etc. and there is a Senior Appraiser designation, which I am still working toward.

Most of my work is for attorneys and insurance companies, for divorce, property liability claims, etc. I was astonished to discover there is not another ASEA in the state of KY.

The greatest benefit, to me, has been to ramp me up relatively quickly.