Jackson's Full Dislosure would be good.....

[da hoss]

The proposed law by Jess Jackson for sales - asking for "Full" dislosure on ownership, medication, surgical procedures, and licensing of bloodstock agents would be a great thing.

Why would others - specifically most sales agencies with bloodstock want otherwise - seems like it would be best for the integrity of the industry?

When there is resistence to disclosure, I tend to believe there is something to hide?

Thoughts?

[LB]

When there is resistence to disclosure, I tend to believe there is something to hide?

That pretty much sums it up.

[da hoss]

If they are opposed to "reinvent the wheel" - as the system has worked "exceptionally well" for years (per Mark Taylor in TBred times):

Why wouldn't the Sales Integrity Task force have a "Voluntary" FULL disclosure?

That might just lead the industry to become honest pretty fast - atleast it would give the option of dislosure to those who would like to? I would personally prefer to see the disclosure for all - but this would be almost as good.

Those who don't wish to provide disclosure - wouldn't have too. Wonder if buyers wouldn't then demand it - or pay less?

[winds]

Personally I'd like to see full disclosure. This industry needs new owners, new fans and one way to help is if they thought every thing was on the up and up. All the other sports have all these doping scandals, and we are too. But if we showed that we are taking ligitimate steps at stopping the drugs and giving full disclosure at the sales, then they would have a different view of our sport. That should make more people want to watch or go to the races and/or go to the sales to get into the sport.

This is the only sport where you can own a "team" without being a multi billionare. We need to start cleaning it up so we can get more fans and more owners.

winds

[dray33]

And get this, the people in charge of protecting the public, those who supposedly advocate sales integrity, are the ones standing in the way. It's absolutely unreal.

[da hoss]

Why wouldn't the leaders of the industry - who represent a A LOT of horses at the sales do it? Why would some farms or Sales Agencies say the system is fine not broken?

And in your opinion winds - is a major part of the problem the representation of a horse - brokering both sides if you will? The sales agency or broker gets a cut from both? Double dipping - Or is that not a big issue?

Seems like the ownership point or non-commision from Seller disclosure would take care of that issue?

I notice Stone farm has an integrity bulletin on their website - so it must be an issue?

I also find it interesting there is limited discussion from very many people on this subject - almost a don't ask don't tell attitude.

[LB]

Why wouldn't the leaders of the industry - who represent a A LOT of horses at the sales do it? Why would some farms or Sales Agencies say the system is fine not broken?

You need to remember that all the people currently in power in the horse industry rose to their high level under the current system, so it's obviously working for them. That's why they have no incentive to change things.

[winds]

dahoss,

I don't believe in the system as it stands now. I don't like the fact that agents can get money from both the buyer and the seller. To me the agents are only working for one person and that's themselves. It needs to change, and I think what needs to be done is the agents get paid a set fee to do the work for whoever they have the agreement with. The buyer pays the set fee, and all research etc is included in said fee, the buyer pays any expenses ie - travel expenses, motel (see how cheap I am, I didn't say hotel), and rental car. Then the agent does the necessary prep work, compiles their list and goes to the sale ground and looks at the horses. They get paid the same whether they advise to purchase a 30k horse or a 2 million dollar horse, and no other money crosses into their palms from anyone. That is the way it should be and that is the way I do business.

Also, if you are advising on breeding, and you as an agent contact a farm regarding a stallion, then a farm representative contacts you about a 10% commission if you breed to said stallion for said price. Would you take that money? Most do. Not me, if they won't agree to given a 10% discount to my owner, then I'll tell them to send the check to that owner, made out to that owner. That is the way it should be.

But, more people are interested in their own pockets rather than the good of the sport, industry, business as a whole picture. If more people thought the advice they were getting was on the up and up, don't you think more people would get into the business as owners? It's what's needed.

I also think that an owner disclouser is needed too. A friend of mine had a horse in the Saratoga Preferred Sale, it was sold by his consignor as agent, and guess what, the horse sold. You know who's name was there as the buyer? My friend's. It said he bought his own horse...........

Now, was that right? No.

winds

[clh]

Full disclosure would be wonderful - is it going to happen anytime soon? I don't think so. Why? Because like it has been said before - the folks higher in the system do not want it to change. A trainer/agent friend of mine said he spoke to both Keeneland and FT and said he thought having agents licensed was a good idea - they told him it would not happen. So it becomes voluntary - so Seller A decides to be really upfront and honest about their beautiful baby and says it had something done to correct conformation. Seller B decides not to disclose squat and his baby had more done - who's baby do you think will sell for more? YEP - the one that doesn't have information on record of any surgeries, etc... It's the nature of the beast. Sad but true. Do I care who knows what I own and what I'm selling? NOPE, but I do use an Agent Number when I sell. I also try and contact the buyer of anyone who has purchased one of my foals to number one thank them for buying it (even if they bought it for nothing), and to let them know I'm available for any questions about his/her routine, etc... When my mares go through the ring in November I really want to talk to the buyers and tell them the special things about the mares they are buying and I will try my hardest to make that happen. I think that is important for an easy transition for the expectant mares - some folks however couldn't care less what you have to say. However, wouldn't it be nice to know that one mare has "neck" issues before the vet goes in there with a needle for an injection? Just a few pokes with a fingernail in the neck to desensitize the area is all it takes - wouldn't that be easier than them seeing her freak out and them manhandle her to give her an injection? Just simple info like that.

I was so upset that Jess Jackson settled out of court. Now everything is confidential - so who really knows who was guilty of what or how much. Just because they paid doesn't mean they were quilty of anything - the fee that they paid could very well have been less than they would have paid in attorney fees. If anyone had the resources to take this all the way through the system it was him. Unfortunately I realize his reasons for settling out - but still.....

Having been in relationships that ended going through an attorney in the horse business I can tell you it can get expensive and I can also guarantee you that some of the laws are not on the "right" side of the problem. For instance, I wanted to pick up a mare that I owned 2/3's of. Couldn't do it. Law wouldn't allow me so I had to continue paying board. How much does that suck?

The entire system needs to be overhauled and looked at very closely or you'll continue to lose breeders/owners and you won't be able to get new people into the game. And that is just the sad truth.

Just my thoughts.......

[da hoss]

Check this out regarding the new Law in FL:

"The department has been given charge to develop rules aimed at protecting horse buyers and sellers. The rules are intended to promote sales transparency, full disclosure, and integrity in the sales process, as well as prevent fraud and unscrupulous trade practices in the horse industry. "

If I am reading this right - Florida is leading the industry - maybe the good ol boys club will take heed and make it right in KY too? Why wouldn't Keeneland with their history want to lead?

http://auctions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=41629

[madelyn]

Asking the folks who have made their living by through their practice of selling animals they know have issues to make rules forcing them to disclose the issues is a bit like putting convicts in charge of jail security.

[casallc]

When people start touting honesty and integrity, I get worried and put my hand on my wallet. The Sales Integrity Task Force is an example of that, I'm afraid what that means is the elite blue-blood network will reap the benefits but the common guy is on his own. It is hard to legislate integrity, it will manifest itself without the ability to hire the best attorney.

[winds]

Don't worry casallc I don't think anyone with honesty and integrity would want to do business with you anyway.

winds

[Georgerz]

My, that is quite an indictment, Winds. I don't think that a statement like that is protected by Freedom of Speech.

[Rokeby Forever]

I would definitely do business with Winds. She has a $3.95/minute phone voice and she tells me that I'm the best - is that integrity or what?

It's a sad state of affairs when an Integrity Task Force needs to be established. I don't see how certain things could ever be enforced, and I'm sure folks out there are already figuring out ways around proposed rules.