Pinhooking for a hobby?/More profitable?

[Slew83]

Has anyone pinhooked a yearling or two for a hobby?
1. How much was the yearling buy price?
2. What was the sell price as a 2 year old? Good/bad?
3. What was the profit/loss?
4. Would you do it again?

Which one is more profitable? Buying & Reselling:

1. Buying weanlings to resell as yearlings?
2. Buying yearlings to resell as 2 year olds?
3. Buying weanlings to resell as a 2 year old?

[Hold Your Peace]

Unless you can afford to play at the top end, I think it's very tough to make a profit pinhooking yearlings to 2yo sales unless you're a trainer whose doing the work yourself.

Those who can afford to play at the upper end like our own Dray can do very well even though they're paying others to train, because if they sell a $300,000 yearling for double that amount as a 2yo (and it's hard to ask for more than a 100% increase) that $300,000 gain pays the bills and then some. But if you sell a $15,000 yearling for double that amount as a 2yo (still hard to ask for more than a 100% increase) that $15,000 gain probably doesn't even pay all of the bills.

I think you have a much better chance to profit by pinhooking lower priced weanlings (or even short yearlings) to summer/fall yearling sales. It's sill a risky proposition but you won't rack up huge training bills by raising and prepping a weanling that you resell as a yearling.

[dray33]

Your 100% correct HYP. But the game is risky top to bottom. I have been pinhooking for 3 years now, this February will be my 4th. My first year was the best. ONE horse. ONE sale. Bought a FORESTRY filly for 120k, sold her for 400k (but I do not train, so the expenses mounted). Basically, I doubled my money. The horse went on to become DIPLOMAT LADY, G1 winner, and sell as a broodmare prospect for over a million! Beginners luck!

Since then, I have pretty much broken even, except I got horses to race free out of the deal (meaning the profit from what I sold paid for the horses that RNA'd), but with training them and subsequent racing, it was at best a wash.

This year the market is looking scary as I bring my largest consignment to date: 8 horses. 4 will be breezed as usual, 4 will be "Zephyr" breezed (slowly, no whip, no clock). I'm a bit nervous. But the horses are wonderful, every one, and I will be happy to race any or all.

So that answers some of your questions I hope. I only buy yearlings and sell 2YO. But I think the idea of weanlings to yearlings is interesting. Whatever you decide, best of luck.

[billl]

I did with cheap horses as a learning experience. I got a yearling for 10.5K and sold it for 32K as 2 YO. I bought another one for 6.5K but got an autoinmume disease that he never got recovered and was sacrificed. This made me spent all the profits from the first one and more.

In conclusion, Take into consideration that this business is most of the time significantly riskier than the stock market.

[bdw0617]

but profit margins are usually higher... with risk comes rewards...

[larrygene]

I have a freiend that goes to the KY sales in Sept., Nov., and Jan. and buys yearlings in the $2K to $6K price range. He then takes them to his farm, marks up the selling price about double what he paid and then puts them on his website. He has been very successful doing this for several years. Sells horses all over the country and lives in a state that has no racing. I don't call what he does as pinhooking but more of just plain old buying and selling. When he finally got a website he started selling 3 times what he did with ad in the BH and TT. Amazing!!!

[zinn21]

Pinhooking is a tough tough game. The first horse I bought was pinhooked and I made a small fortune. The next two I lost money.

If you're going to compete at the premium sales (i.e. Barrett's March or the early Florida venues) you better have some serious money and be prepared to work your butt off screening and bidding on horses.

Choose a consignor with a solid reputation. If you consign yourself and are unknown, you better offer a string of really nice horses who preview very well otherwise it will be quite a challenge to overcome the "unknown consignor" factor.

[Foggytrip]

You can profit, or lose

We spent 260 for 5 horses

We sold 3 off for 1.5 million, and have two currently still racing. If you know what you are doing you can do well, if you dont have a clue youll get drilled.

[bdw0617]

You can profit, or lose

We spent 260 for 5 horses

We sold 3 off for 1.5 million, and have two currently still racing. If you know what you are doing you can do well, if you dont have a clue youll get drilled.

which is the general theme for any business in the world. pinhooking is not very much different than dealing with stocks extect for dealing with horse shit

[Foggytrip]

Its a lot different BDW. There is no NASD in horseracing, its like the Wild West. If you step into the stock market with 100,000k, go with a major firm and low risk investment you probably wont get hurt. Every investment in horseracing is highrisk. Both involve a gamble, but you cannot hedge in horseracnig nearly as well as you can in the market.

[madelyn]

Yes VERY different, there is no SEC for bloodstock agents.

[Foggytrip]

Like Madelyn said, with no NASD, SEC the game can get very ugly. The thievery that takes place on a normal basis in horseracing would never fly in the real world

[Morningside]

I don't really agree with that... i think in general the thoroughbred business is just like any other business. yes, a lot of people get burned, but a lot of people get burned in other businesses as well. it's only a function of how much homework you do. i dont understand how people can go into the horse business without any doing any proper research and still expect not to lose money. in the business world, if you make an investment without conducting the proper due diligence and you lose your shirt, people will just laugh at you because you're plain stupid. so why would the thoroughbred business be any different?
i think the bottom line is, if you are diligent with your research, find the best team of professional (buying agent, trainer etc), and make business decisions cautiously, you should be able to do well in any business, horse business included.

[larrygene]

My advice to anyone new and wanting to get into the thoroughbred game is first subscribe to the PQ, the Blood-Horse magazine and possibly the Thoroughbred Times magazine. Read them for a year cover to cover, watch TVG and HRTV. Go to sales if possible. Then go talk to at least 5 different people about what area of the game you want to participate in, i.e., breeding, racing, claiming, pinhooking, etc. After you talk with those 5 people pick one to be a mentor. You should by then have a decent grasp of what you are doing. Put together a plan of what you want to accomplish and then work the plan. I've been in this game for over 40 yrs. and I learn something new every day. To me its the only game in town. Nothing else compares, nothing!!!

I can promise you if you don't do your homework and you don't seek honest advice in this game, you will FAIL!!!!! Its not can you get into the business, its can you stay in the business. There are too many highs and lows, plus to much bad advice and information out there that a person will eventually give up. The price of admission is going up every day with higher prices for bloodstock, trainers, vets, etc. that a person today literally cannot make many mistakes. Its just too costly.

Success always comes with a price!!! The question you have to ask is, is the price worth it.

Larrygene

[Foggytrip]

Morningside, Im sorry I disagree 100 percent. Ive seen a lot of good people get in and get out because they get burned. They are burned by "professionals" The problem is most of these "professionals" konw other "professionals" and they do business together. Half the people dont even know theyve been burned. It is not like any other business.