Need "poor doer" suggestions!

[TB Dreamin']

Sigh. She was doing so well, it seemed to me, but again, has taken a turn south.

She never ever did get rid of the one or two coughs a day, but really seemed to take on dappled appearance/weight gain, etc., but now is losing weight, yet again.

Had the vet out and he didn't hear any concerning lung sounds, but he just called me w/the results of her blood...her WBC count is 3000!!!!!!! (should be 7000-10000) and her fibrinogen is 800 indicating a bad infection somewhere. He feels she has Pleurisy/Pneumonia or will break w/bad diarrhea...

We've had her on Pen for 10 days, but she continues w/a fever every other day. It's weird, one day she's normal and the next, 102-104. We recently received a horse that had shipping fever and although I kept them seperated for 20 days, this seemed to set her off.

Our vet wants us to take her to the hospital for a special ultrasound and possible flushing or chest tube to drain fluid, if that's what they find, to the tune of thousands and I just cannot do thousands right now...

He said she may just continue to get sicker and sicker until we have to put her down. Does anyone have any experience w/Pleurisy or internal abscesses? (another thought about what it could be)

Help!

[madelyn]

Not to sound repetitive, but gutteral pouch infection can often go undetected, seems impervious to antibiotics and has to be lanced to get it gone. Another possibility is a mild case of bastard strangles. Testing her for strepococcus might be an option. It is a bit like a generalized staph infection. It could also be she just has a low immune system and these might be unrelated episodes of different illnesses.

[Salsawattiez]

Did abit about Ulcers on the 'Skinny foal' Don't kow if would help or not.

I'm just going to e-mail the vet, with main points.......... see if he can give any advise.
Not knocking your vet obviously but always worth fresh ideas. He might not because of it being unethical

Hope she keeps fighting. But you do need to prepare yourself for the worse by the sound of things.

Good luck

[TB Dreamin']

Thanks for the ideas...I just mentioned gutteral pouch to my vet and said he thought she'd have more nasal discharge/or constant discharge? He said he wouldn't rule it out however.

I'm open to any and all suggestions at this time. Our vet wants us to take her, outpatient, to the clinic and have the specialist u/s her chest. They are really leaning Pleurisy, I guess. If there's fluid there, insert a tube to get a sample and culture it, and also, do some type of wash. If they don't see fluid, they would start u/s on other areas, like, the abdomen. But, it's REALLY expensive.

I'm wondering about a broad spectrum antibiotic, because like I said, she really came around, put on weight, looked bright, etc., and this seems to coincide w/the new horse who had shipping fever.

But, why would Pen work on the new horse and not on this one, if in fact, it was the same thing? (talking out loud)

I'll appreciate to hear any other advice and looking forward to the last poster's vet's advice.(sorry, I can't remember your screen name!)

[Salsawattiez]

Antiobiotics are fine for a short sharp kick but not long term, they can do too much side damage. Don't forget the reason antiobiotics work so well is because they KILL bacteria, but they KILL the GOOD as well as the bad. I'm quite happy to keep posting personal/other peoples advice as long as others don't. With my business we do help complement conventual medicine but l don't want others to think l'm pushing my business. I only recommend if hand on heart I believe or have been told it could help. But ofcourse these are my circles so my expeariances come from this direction. If you'rd rather me not try to offer advice l will quite understand. I'm new to the forum and don't want to upset anyone
Sorry hope I haven't gone on but I'm sure you all understand what I'm meaning.

[madelyn]

A broad spectrum antibiotic, for gram positive AND gram negative bacteria, might have better results. Pen might have worked on the one horse because the bacteria it had was killed by the Pen. Pen is NOT broad spectrum. You could try SMZ's. I have seen gutteral pouch infection with no discharge. Just the cough.

[Salsawattiez]

Could be ulcers. All sorts of diabolical symptoms can occur with this condition. Treatment with Gastrogard is expensive--you can try a new product which has come VERY highly recommended to me--PRO-BIO K--which is much cheaper an supposedly as effective.

www.probiok.com

we are always adviced that if you take antibiotics you should take probiotics. We do a 6 strain probiotic & our products are suitable for both animal/humans but as mentioned there is this. I've never used it so can't recommend it but it is produced for equines. Just another idea for the boiling pot.

[Laurierace]

I had a horse with pleuritis once. She stood camped out like she was trying to pee and had a fever. Those were the two main symptoms we noticed. She spent a week at New Bolton and then another two weeks at a rehab facility. When I originally arrived at the hospital they said 50/50 chance of survival and wouldn't even give me a percentage on returning to racing. She obviously survived and even went on to win again. She earned a lifetime high beyer of 93 in her last start, an 11 1/4 length two other than victory. It wasn't an easy road but in her case was well worth it.

[Salsawattiez]

That's brilliant to hear.

Positive personal results. True success story. How about some pics of the successful horse

[Laurierace]

(alt+p)

[Laurierace]

Her first foal, Ray Ray
(alt+p)

[Salsawattiez]

lovely photo.

Can even see the dust from he's hind

[TB Dreamin']

Laurierace-Ray Ray is beautiful!!! Is that your house in the background? It's beautiful, too! We have been searching for a farm for almost a year now and it seems like one of two things (in our price range anyway) either you get the land fenced and a great barn, but the house is in a complete state of disrepair or you get a nice house w/no fencing and either no barn or a falling down barn!!!

Anywho, I had the ultrasound done and she doesn't have any fluid on the lungs...but lots of what the vet called "comet tails" indicating Pleurisy, I believe, so the advice is to put her on Chloramphenicol (the wear gloves/causes Aplasic Anemia stuff) 35 cc/3 times per day for quite a few weeks, depending on blood work. The vet was overjoyed that she had no signs of fluid...me too. So, that's an update of sorts.

I will do probiotics at the same time, sounds like a great idea. Thanks everyone...I will keep you posted!

[TB Dreamin']

Laurierace,

Do you mind my asking, about how much did it cost to treat Pleurisy? Can you tell me more about the horse that had it, what other things you tried, what the blood results showed, etc.? Did your horse have to have the lung wash, culture, etc. from fluid on the lungs?

thanks,
amy

[Laurierace]

Thanks for the compliments. Unfortunately that is not my house nor my farm. My house is more or less as nice as that one but has no property to speak of, just a pool and a little more on the sides. The farm is 5 acres more or less with 28 horses on it so we do lots of sharing!

About my mare, I wish I could remember more of the details as to exactly what they did. For some reason the number $3500 is sticking in my mind but I don't remember so who knows if that is accurate or not. What I do remember is my vet diagnosed her over the phone on Saturday while at his Father's funeral while the fill in for the fill in vet laughed at the idea. Really pissed me off! I said the hell with it and loaded her up and took her to New Bolton on Tuesday. If I had listened to my vet instead of the idiot who examined her she could have been treated three days earlier. Thankfully it didn't matter in the end.
Ok what I do remember is an IV catheter that stayed in place three weeks, one week at NBC and then two more weeks at the rehab place. They wanted her nearby in case something went wrong, rehab place was just a few miles away. She came home with a months worth or more of oral antibiotics and shaved on the sides of her chest. I remember at least two chest ultrasounds and one tap. I am sure there was at least one culture in there somewhere as well.
The result of two cases of pneumonia and one case of pleuritis is she was a horrible bleeder. She never bled at all before that but her lungs healed with quite a bit of scar tissue. I eventually landed upon a combo of drugs that stopped her bleeding but it still seemed like it took her lungs two months between races to recover. I told her if she won this race she would never have to race again. This is a mare that you could ride with a halter and lead rope and put beginners on her while at the track. She went on a 3 hour trail ride through the mountains with 35 horses as a two year old. She won that race by 11 1/4 lengths, stopped after the wire, dropped the jock and refused to let him get back on!!! She was retired, he could walk back to the winner's circle!