Stoppin The Pawin?-Long

Veterinary, horse care, and training issues.

Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster, madelyn

jellac
Grade I Winner
Posts: 1542
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:46 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Postby jellac » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:56 pm

BridledObsession said:

...I was surprised at the low expectations many people seem to have regarding their Thoroughbred's ground manners. I'm sticking to my upbringing and training mine with the same expectations I had as a child. I believe that's what the majority of people do -- it doesn't make it wrong or right, as long as your horse is happy and healthy. We need to be more tolerant of other horse communities' processes and training.


As someone who got involved with riding and then breeding to race and to my mind the requisite re-careering of those racehorses (both thoroughbreds & QHs) in my middle years; I couldn't agree more that teaching a TB (or Arab/QH or paint) to stand quietly while being mounted and to ground tie or stand tied/cross-tied is a skill that more of us race horse breeders really ought to consider including in the training of our horses - or insist that our trainers do for us. It is the single thing - aside from any manifest injury incurred while racing, even if horse is sound on it - that makes it difficult to find homes for these ex-racers. TBs are usually on the 'tall' side as compared to a lot of other breeds prospective new owners are familiar with and very high energy, at least initially, as compared to those other breeds as well. They can easily intimidate/turnoff a potentially good match by these 'lack of training' actions that could have been easily dealt with when they were young.

User avatar
geowarrior
Leading Sire
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Postby geowarrior » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:31 pm

Thanks all for this interesting discussion. As someone who is about to acquire an OTTB directly off the track, what can I expect? Will the horse not be trained to be tied to anything? Or am I misunderstanding the discussion?

User avatar
Lucy
Moderator
Posts: 2158
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:44 pm
Location: Watertown, MA

Postby Lucy » Fri Aug 03, 2007 3:43 pm

I'd guess it depends who the trainer was. Most of the racers I knew were used to being tied in their stalls...of course, that presents horses a very different set of stimuli than being tied outdoors, etc., but it proved to be a good place to start.

I've yet to meet a race trainer that cross-ties, though. That may take more practice. :wink:

BridledObsession
Allowance Winner
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:40 am
Location: Grantville, PA

Postby BridledObsession » Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:38 am

That's funny that you should mention that, Lucy. I've never seen a Thoroughbred cross-tied in any of the "racing" barns. Not too long ago, I cross-tied one of ours in the aisle to do his feet -- I didn't really stop to think that he may have never done it before. He's normally a really reasonable guy too. Let's just say I quickly regretted it :D It ended with me feeling lucky that no one was seriously injured and I'm now working on ground-tying him outside to do his feet, which he seems to be picking up on very quickly.

Geowarrior, My experience with ex-racers is that their background varies greatly, from horse to horse. They are in and out of our barn all the time because our farm is used alot for either rest and return to the track or a stopping point until a new home is found. Each and every one manages to surprise you with what they do or don't know. Almost all of them can and do learn quickly. Simply keep your expectations high and present them with many opportunities for success. We've found that the company of other well-trained horses also seems to teach by example. That being said, they will also pick up on bad habits and/or take advantage of you if you let them :lol:

Kelly Kip
2yo Maiden
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Florida
Contact:

Postby Kelly Kip » Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:03 pm

I used to work at a farm in FL that had mares/foals/ yearlings. ALL of our yearlings crosstied in the washrack for baths. We didn't have a choice....it was just me and another girl for 17 horses, and just didn't have time to waste. We had to get them all walked(45 min.) & bathed before lunch at 11AM, then all had to be groomed by 3 pm. Frequently we tried to get a few groomed in the AM , and the boss wanted ALL of them groomed at least 30 min, but we usually did it in 20-25 min.

They all took it reasonably well , but we started teaching them very early. We took our time, and teamed up together when necessary. We only had 3 or 4 that we had to do first time hosing in an empty stall, but once they saw it didn't hurt, we took them right to the washrack. Of course, we had haystring on the ties in case of a freakout, but it usually fell apart before it was broken.

I think horses that come from a smaller operation (or one that just can't keep help, like mine!) tend to be better broke on the ground, just because the people handling them can't afford to allow misbehavior.

User avatar
monicabee
Allowance Winner
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: Seattle

Postby monicabee » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:36 am

Geowarrior:

Cross ties are not the only thing to think about. These articles from the Canter web site have some good insights.

http://www.canterusa.org/resourcefiles/ ... eknows.htm

http://www.canterusa.org/resourcefiles/ ... sehome.htm


For me, simply having spent time at the track on the backside was valuable also. My horse made the transition with few problems - not being in a rush was critical. The introduction to the "biting fence" was probably the most traumatic, but he quickly learned to drive his turnout companion between him and the hot wire for protection. Overall, he has proved to be a remarkably steady and confident horse who processes rather than panics.

Good luck with your new horse.

User avatar
geowarrior
Leading Sire
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Postby geowarrior » Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:03 am

Monica, thanks for the links, I'm sure they will prove helpful.

gotpaints
Maiden Special Weight
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 9:29 pm
Contact:

Postby gotpaints » Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:25 am

BTW, I did get the pawing stopped and she is now at the trainers getting broke to ride.
"I've never trained a horse in my life, the horses have trained me"-2006 BC Juvie Winner & 2007 Kentucky Derby winner Street Sense's trainer Carl Nafzger

User avatar
skeenan
Grade I Winner
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:40 am
Location: NH
Contact:

Postby skeenan » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:01 pm

geowarrior wrote:Thanks all for this interesting discussion. As someone who is about to acquire an OTTB directly off the track, what can I expect? Will the horse not be trained to be tied to anything? Or am I misunderstanding the discussion?


I found out the hard way that my OTTB panics if she pulls back and feels caught. She tied fine until she pulled back & felt trapped, panicked, broke the tie & took off across the yard... I had assumed tying would be a necessary part of her race training... :wink:

There's a great tie ring you can get that allows the lead rope to slide through (the round, thicker nylon rope ones) so if they do panic, it will let out but not enough that they're loose. Once the pressure is off, they should stop pulling. It might take some "practice" before you try to use it, if you find your guy doesn't tie. Eventually, they find their comfort spot (how much slack they like) and will stand there:

http://www.blockerranch.com/product.php?lookupsku=Tie+Ring+Chrome&loadsku=1&cat=

User avatar
geowarrior
Leading Sire
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Postby geowarrior » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:52 pm

My guy had his first lesson in tying yesterday, as we decided it would be safer not to make assumptions. Apparently he did very well, not pulling back.

When I groomed him, I put his halter and lead rope on, and just wound the rope around one of the posts in his paddock. He pretty much stood stock still the entire time. I think the only think he likes better than grooming is food.

User avatar
skeenan
Grade I Winner
Posts: 1509
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:40 am
Location: NH
Contact:

Postby skeenan » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:23 am

That's great!! You can tie a horse safely (while you're around) if you use a quick-release knot, too.