Milk Test Strips - EL CHEAPO

[Diane]

Irene you have youngsters you can't give away. To say a mare won't give birth while being watched is an excuse for not making a better effort to be there. That lack of effort reflects the value one puts on their animals. I consider it my personal responsibility to make sure things go as well as possible for any of my animals for any situation I put them in.
K~2 thanks for sharing.
Griff I see where you are coming from. In humans the action of being suckled causes the release of hormones that cause the uterus to contract, helping to expel leftover content and return to normal shape.

[ireneinwa]

Sorry to hear 50% is high, good thing your able to catch them foaling.

[ireneinwa]

Irene you have youngsters you can't give away. To say a mare won't give birth while being watched is an excuse for not making a better effort to be there. That lack of effort reflects the value one puts on their animals. I consider it my personal responsibility to make sure things go as well as possible for any of my animals for any situation I put them in.

Pratically no one can give away in this economy, yes thats true. But thats got nothing to do with my mares comfort, they have never had problems, like I said they get very nerves with people around. Safer for them to be by themselves. When they are close to foaling Ill go out and check every hour, then the hour I come out boom there's a foal. I wish it wasnt so cold and wet out when they foal because Id prefer, as my vet does to let them foal in the field. One my mares always foaled that way when she was on a breeding farm in TX.
But I guess if you have a problem mare with foaling youd want to be there and babysit them.

[madelyn]

I've only personally foaled out maybe about forty foals. In my limited experience, ANY mare can have a problem ANY year. The incidence is a lmay be higher with maiden mares, but mares who've foaled out five or six can get that ONE that is not quite properly presented.. with a hoof pressing on the wall likely to go through and get you a rectal tear.. or go down to foal too close to a wall or corner, get up and down and break the foal's leg or neck, or have one that needs a little help to breathe and stand, or have a red bag, which usually means a dead foal unless I am THERE to help. With my small numbers (we are having seven foals this year - it was eight but I sold one mare last week) I just can't afford (financially OR emotionally) to lose a single one and just couldn't live with myself if I did not pull out All The Stops to try to make sure everything goes well. When foaling seems imminent, I spend lots of time grooming the mare.. I want to make sure that she is clean and comfortable. I give her periodic rubdowns. I usually wash the udder off with a bit of Dawn, alcohol and warm water. Then, in labor, if she's having a hard time passing the shoulders, I'm there to brace against her butt and keep pressure on the forward foreleg so that each push is more effective. Then, after foaling, I use tons of fluffy white towels to dry junior off, I dip the navel stump, bring in sawdust to soak up the fluids, clean the stall, spread another bale of straw, wait for the placenta so I can have it straight from the mare to check for missing pieces, I give junior that first tetanus shot, help find the soda fountain (udders), start the milk, and spend time bonding. There is something just so SPECIAL about being with your mare at her very important moment.

One of this year's foals is already presold - it is the mare's second foal, and she is one of my very best mares. I would not DREAM of not being there. There is nothing that breaks your heart quite the way that the sight and sound of a mare in mourning for her dead baby can....

[griff]

somethings wrong with a 50% foal crop.. Every band of feral horses nI saw in Nevada looked like a 90% plus foal crop..l No grain, no vaqccines, no wormers, no vets and no stalls much less stall watchers and every one of the mares seem to have a foal by hernside and one in the oven..I know it was not 100% but it syre looked close

What is going on here.

griff

[madelyn]

You cannot compare productivity of a wild, feral herd to domestic animals, simply because there is no assistance available to them and so mares who suffer difficulties with a foal end up "bred out" - survival of the fittest.

[griff]

Maybe, but many of those feral horses are domestic stock gone wild or not too many generations from domestic stock gone wild.. And they seem to do much better w/o human "help".

And I still say that something is wrong with a 50% foal crop.

griff

[madelyn]

Griff, you have thoroughly misunderstood - if you re-read my post, I said that I've only had about a 50% success rate with UNATTENDED MARES - in the few occasions where the mare managed to foal without a human present. I've never lost one when I was THERE.

[griff]

Yep, I did misread and I apoligize..

Still I went to the 2008 report of mares covered vs 2009 foals and looking at the top five stallions listed & the percent of live foals ranges from the low to upper 70 percential. That's still pretty bad for a list of stallions lead by Giants Causway who had a 76% ratio

I then went to leading stallions report and find that only 45% of Giants Causway foals to race ever win and the avearge of the top five stallion, including Giants Causway, is only 50% of their foals to race ever win a race

So you breed a high priced mare to a "top" stallion and you have about a 75% chance of getting a live foal, I don't know what percentage of that 75% ever get to the track but of those that do only about 50% ever win a race.

The specific numbers for Giants Causway, who was the top stallion on both lists was 45% of his runners win and if I'm reading the chart correctly less than 20% of f his foals to race ever win twice..

Again, I maybe reading that last "win twice" chart wrong but people pay $100k to breed to this great stallion and only 50% of his FOALS TO RUN ever win a race, ANY RACE. And the data seems to be just a poor for the rest of the top stallions

I wonder what percentage of those foals that are born live ever get to the track.. If that's a poor 50% type number it makes the 5) that never win a race even more revealing

griff

[madelyn]

Stallion owners report covers, not fertilized embryos.

The stud farm has absolutely no control over the quality of care the "outside" mare receives, her precise breedable status when she is presented at the shed (ie: small follicle but teasing, big softie getting ready to ovulate) nor the subsequent 11-1/2 months and whether the birth is unattended, etc., a MYRIAD of things that all affect the stallion's statistics. The numbers AFTER that are the more significant ones, in my opinion. Those can be particularly affected by the quality of mares the stallion covers, in addition to other factors. I just don't know about the QUALITY of mares Giant's Causeway got - I know he had an absolutely MASSIVE book and I had personal doubts that there were even that many mares of sufficient quality and pedigree to suit him and his fee.

[ireneinwa]

Griff, you have thoroughly misunderstood - if you re-read my post, I said that I've only had about a 50% success rate with UNATTENDED MARES - in the few occasions where the mare managed to foal without a human present. I've never lost one when I was THERE.

I misunderstood you also.

[griff]

Come on Madelyn

You take a $100k mare to a $100k stallion and you are goiing to blame the very poor 75% live foal to cover ration on the poor care the $100k mare receives when it gets home???. That's a real stretch.

Does anyone have a good spin on the fact that only around 50% of the foals to race from these $100k stallions ever win a race? We have $2,500 stallions here in the Mid-Atlantic that do better than that with just as good a earnings per starter as the $100k KY stallions. And they build these $35k earnings per starter with meat and potatoe purses;

griff

[LKR]

Even if you are there you can lose one but there isn't the guilt to deal with. Sometimes all they need is a foot straightened and that does the trick. What a shame if that was the difference between a live one and a dead one. Maidens scare us the most, they just don't know what is going on sometimes. One jumped up with the legs partially out and before we could stop her she turned away from the wall and snapped a leg on the baby. My husband has never gotten over that one.

[Laurierace]

Maybe, but many of those feral horses are domestic stock gone wild or not too many generations from domestic stock gone wild.. And they seem to do much better w/o human "help".

And I still say that something is wrong with a 50% foal crop.

griff

You do realize that many of the mares that did have problems died during the process so they don't factor in to the mares you see with foals by their side.

[griff]

Did not take that into account and do not remeber seeing any dead horses.. I'm sure they are out there but these feral mares are not fed like we feed and probably do not have large foals..

I've had to pull a lot of calves but I've never had to pull a foal.

griff