Pedigree Query

What is everyone feeding now days? Seems as though I see less and less oats every year and FAR more pelleted feeds/processed feeds. Also, must say I have seen horses look really good that were being fed processed feeds.... better then the oat/sweet feed fed horses. Has technology passed oats by and are the processed feeds now superior? Would like to here other thoughts on this matter from anyone interested.


tia

I like pelletized feeds and my foals are on 19-20% protein creep feed pellets from day one. I keep them on full feed (16% pellets and good hay, free choice) after weaning until they go into training. In training I feed at 4AM, 12noon and 8PM religiously 16% pellets and free choice best hay. You cant get the lysine, fats and amino acids in oats and I don't like to pay for floor sweepings in some sweet feeds. The other factor is you don't need to add minerals and vitamins because you can get it all formulated into the feed. Getting horses to eat is one of the primary functions of a trainer it is much easier if they are fed the same way all their life. Some say pellets are unnatural but so are oats. Horses are grazers and don't find sacks of oats on the prairie.

I use 14% pellets, too (Strategy), but for my elderly mare who gets Senior Feed, I add 3 coffee cups of oats to each of her feedings, just as a kind of filler.

Casallc, have you experienced any OCD issues with your feeding program? I was told 19% protein could cause calcification in joints.

zinn21 --
Just making assumptions here, but if you say that casallc's foals are getting 20 pounds of Timothy hay (@ 10% protien) and 6 pounds of 20% creep feed, that comes out to @ 12% protien for the total diet (26 pounds) intake for the day. Now, if they are getting 20 pounds of dairy quality alfalfa ( some are oover 20% protien! ), then that would be a very high protien diet.

If you look at the ingredients list for pelleted feeds from mfgs like Purina, the first ingredient is usually "grain products" and the second item is usually "grain by-products". So even though they're pelleted, it is still a grain based diet.

FWIW: From the FDA Labeling Regs: [url]<http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=501.110>[/url]

Grain products include one or more of the following: Barley, grain sorghums, maize (corn), oats, rice, rye, and wheat.

Processed grain byproducts include one or more of the following: Brans, brewers dried grains, distillers grains, distillers solubles, flours, germ meals, gluten feeds, gluten meals, grits, groats, hominy feeds, malt sprouts, middlings, pearled, polishings, shorts, and wheat mill run.

Some mfg's state exactly what is in their feeds. I know Buckeye and Southern States state exacly what is in their feed (e.g. oats).

Kami

horsenuts --

one thing to consider with oats is that they throw off the Ca:P ratio. If fed w/alfalfa (high calcium), they're probably fine, but w/o a good source of calcium, the oats may work against the horse if he isn't getting calcium from somewhere else.

In general oats are a good dense source of calories, but (like stated above), its probably simpler to to get the calories and have a balanced diet w/processed feeds. (Of course, this is before all the supplements are added in)

Kami

zinn21 wrote:Casallc, have you experienced any OCD issues with your feeding program? I was told 19% protein could cause calcification in joints.

Not that I would attribute to the feeding program. Growing foals can easily handle more than 20% protein. The OCD issues would more likely come from mineral deficiencies/overload or heredity. There has been talk of too much protein causing some bone issues but has never been substantiated according to Colorado State Equine Nutrition Dept. I want to give foals every chance to reach their maximum potential without jacking them up on steroids. Some may get too big before their knees close or other problems but I need to be smart enough not to push one that isn't ready. It cost too much to get them to where they are, to ruin them before they are ready. Unfortunately, I think that is what happens to a lot (if not a majority) of race prospects.

I use a variation on this formula for the non-working horses.
1 part COB (rolled corn, oats and barley), 1 part whole oats, then add 1 cup pelletized rice bran and one scoop vitamins per feeding, fed 2X daily.
Everyone gets a more or less depending on circumstance, and everyone gets grass hay and alfalfa.

I am trying an Equis brand complete feed for my 2yr old in race training, and we like it. Plenty of energy and muscle.

The cost seems to work out pretty good, $11 per 50lb bag for the Equis, and about $7.50 per 50lb for my mix.
We grow our own grass hay and have to pay $180 per ton for alfalfa.
How does this compare to costs for your feed programs?

Thanks for responding. Just as a side thought-how many believe it's important/imperative to raise babies on grass pasture? Or can you raise a good strong healthy baby in a dry paddock large enough for appropriate exercise?

zinn21 wrote:Thanks for responding. Just as a side thought-how many believe it's important/imperative to raise babies on grass pasture? Or can you raise a good strong healthy baby in a dry paddock large enough for appropriate exercise?

Not only do I think you cannot raise a strong healthy foal in a paddock but I think it borders on cruelty. Horses need to be horses and horses roam in pastures grazing upon good forage. If you don't have enough room for your horses to graze you don't need to have horses. Even racehorses need to be turned out routinely.

Define paddock. A paddock is a large fenced enclosure. I don't see how that borders on cruelty. It IS very important, though, for them to have real grass, not just dried hay. There are nutrients in fresh grass that fade or disappear in hay.

madelyn wrote:Define paddock. A paddock is a large fenced enclosure. I don't see how that borders on cruelty. It IS very important, though, for them to have real grass, not just dried hay. There are nutrients in fresh grass that fade or disappear in hay.

She said DRY paddock. Unless she is in the desert a dry paddock would normally not be very big. A paddock of 5 or so acres would be adequate but I run mares and colts in large pastures. The same with foals after weaning they run, eat and graze until sale prepping or go into training.

casallc wrote:Not that I would attribute to the feeding program. Growing foals can easily handle more than 20% protein. The OCD issues would more likely come from mineral deficiencies/overload or heredity. There has been talk of too much protein causing some bone issues but has never been substantiated according to Colorado State Equine Nutrition Dept.

You may want to look at the compendium of research on equine nutrition before subscribing to one with so much, umm, militant-type fervor.

freshman wrote:

casallc wrote:Not that I would attribute to the feeding program. Growing foals can easily handle more than 20% protein. The OCD issues would more likely come from mineral deficiencies/overload or heredity. There has been talk of too much protein causing some bone issues but has never been substantiated according to Colorado State Equine Nutrition Dept.

You may want to look at the compendium of research on equine nutrition before subscribing to one with so much, umm, militant-type fervor.

I have and it supports what I say. I have, also, been doing it for over 40 years. You may want to look at the other thread about this and read some research by equine nutritionists. What are your qualifications?

Well, if you get caught short and the co-op is closed, you can always go to walmart and pick up a few bags of dog kibble. It runs about 20% protein, too.

Good luck!