I am looking for people's experience with laser therapy and also for any opinions regarding it's efficacy compared to pin firing. I have a 3 year old with something a bit more severe than bucked shins, but not a fracture. The vet advised pin firing (actually 2 vets did), and so is the trainer and several other horsemen/women that I respect, but we prefer not to pin fire him. Everything I've read (articles in the Thoroughbred Times, veterinary articles etc that I Googled and some non-racing vets) have all said that pin firing is not effective and does not do what folks think it does (bring bloodflow to the area to aid in healing faster and stronger), and it makes sense to me based on the depth of the holes and the firing solution - lasers would penetrate deeper and effect the bone and not just the surface.
I've researched several of the lasers and am not sure which to get or if they are as effective as the websites show. Does anyone on this list have experience with using laser therapy for bucked shins or hairline fractures of the cannon bone (not that my guy has that, but evidently he has more than bucked his one shin)?
Regardless of what therapy we use, this guy will get the time he needs and will be evaluated the whole time to make sure he is safe to run. Any advice/experiences will be welcome!
Lasers?
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster, madelyn
The only thing pin firing accomplishes is it forces a trainer to stop on the horse. That allows time for the horse to recover/remodel bone etc. Burning holes in the horses shins, IMO, does little.
Any of the hi tech therapies (i.e. laser; shock wave) should help if they promote increased blood flow to the area affected. I've used shock wave therapy in conjunction with a 40 day swim program on a filly who had tender shins and she came back excellent with no recurrence of shin tenderness.
I've also kicked out several for sixty days and they all came back with no recurrence. Basically time is what is needed but do not doubt some of the new hi tech therapies can speed up the healing process a bit.
Any of the hi tech therapies (i.e. laser; shock wave) should help if they promote increased blood flow to the area affected. I've used shock wave therapy in conjunction with a 40 day swim program on a filly who had tender shins and she came back excellent with no recurrence of shin tenderness.
I've also kicked out several for sixty days and they all came back with no recurrence. Basically time is what is needed but do not doubt some of the new hi tech therapies can speed up the healing process a bit.
Thanks, but I'm looking for specifics for laser therapy - anyone use it on thier horses, and if so, what kind/brand of laser and what were the results (type fo injury, amount of time off, what was the laser therapy program, and what was the outcome). Guess I should have been more specific. I know that pin firing is brutal, but it is still very prevalent at the race tracks and layup facilities, and I really would like comparisons from people who have done both or seen both done. May be I'm asking too much, but it would be useful for me to know personal experiences with laser therapy. We want to purchase one, so I want to get the right kind and know as much as I can about their use...
Thanks!
Thanks!
Hi Witherbee -
I own a Respond Laser 2400 & have had it for about a decade - just had it refreshed & recalibrated last year.
I use it in conjunction with either a vet's recommendation or as an adjunct to sports massage therapy, depending on if there is something already gone wrong or if we are trying to prevent something.
Laser is a therapy, not a cure; this model came with what I can only describe as 'recipes' for various problems - bucked shins, bowed tendons, nervous horses, tight muscles and the like. Few courses of therapy are once & done - usually, they are for several days & sometimes 10 to 20 minutes, several times/day.
My experience has been that horses stand well for the therapy. You can sometimes see subtle reactions - twitching noses, ears relaxed, deep sigh, or the like. Otherwise, you don't see much.
A friend's gelding, an OTTB showing in jumpers, was off in his right front fetlock. The vet was on his way in a few days, but the friend wanted to test the laser & so asked me to use it & report what I could.
I lasered the gelding for a couple days before the vet got there & told the owner - I can't tell you exactly what's wrong, but I can tell you that I think the laser provides pain relief, but isn't going to fix whatever is wrong. And I can also tell you that he reacts when I laser high on the outside of the fetlock & low on the inside of the fetlock. After the vet saw the horse, the owner called me & said the problem was 2 bone chips - one high on the outside & one low on the inside of the fetlock. I could have guessed chips, but not because of the laser [I'd have guessed solely based on his prior career.]
Oh, and while the directions are for veterinary use only. The therapy for a nervous horse [I think it is suggested for starting gate issues] involves lasering the horse's head. Putting these 2 thoughts together . . . the person from whom I bought this laser told me, "Don't every laser your own head. It makes you dumb."
I didn't even know how to respond to that.
Don't know if this anticdotal stuff helps you at all.
I own a Respond Laser 2400 & have had it for about a decade - just had it refreshed & recalibrated last year.
I use it in conjunction with either a vet's recommendation or as an adjunct to sports massage therapy, depending on if there is something already gone wrong or if we are trying to prevent something.
Laser is a therapy, not a cure; this model came with what I can only describe as 'recipes' for various problems - bucked shins, bowed tendons, nervous horses, tight muscles and the like. Few courses of therapy are once & done - usually, they are for several days & sometimes 10 to 20 minutes, several times/day.
My experience has been that horses stand well for the therapy. You can sometimes see subtle reactions - twitching noses, ears relaxed, deep sigh, or the like. Otherwise, you don't see much.
A friend's gelding, an OTTB showing in jumpers, was off in his right front fetlock. The vet was on his way in a few days, but the friend wanted to test the laser & so asked me to use it & report what I could.
I lasered the gelding for a couple days before the vet got there & told the owner - I can't tell you exactly what's wrong, but I can tell you that I think the laser provides pain relief, but isn't going to fix whatever is wrong. And I can also tell you that he reacts when I laser high on the outside of the fetlock & low on the inside of the fetlock. After the vet saw the horse, the owner called me & said the problem was 2 bone chips - one high on the outside & one low on the inside of the fetlock. I could have guessed chips, but not because of the laser [I'd have guessed solely based on his prior career.]
Oh, and while the directions are for veterinary use only. The therapy for a nervous horse [I think it is suggested for starting gate issues] involves lasering the horse's head. Putting these 2 thoughts together . . . the person from whom I bought this laser told me, "Don't every laser your own head. It makes you dumb."
I didn't even know how to respond to that.
Don't know if this anticdotal stuff helps you at all.
Thanks KBEquine, that does help. I have heard that laser therapy is good for pain relief, but also that it aids in circulation and brings more blood flow to the area, which is one of the things that they say PIN Firing does. I'm not sure what is going to happen with this horse. I won't pin fire, and everyone is telling me it's the only thing that will really help, so maybe he'll be retired. We'll take the digital x-rays now and give him time and then take them again when the vet says it's time. If he's not healed properly, I will retire him...
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KamiBrooks
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not laser therapy, but on fractures.
My left little toe got stepped on by shod horse and did the standard medical industry approach. Was in HORRIBLE pain for 5 days and unable to wear ANY shoe because of the pain. Had to wear shoes 4 sizes too big (borrowed from brother) for next 2 weeks due to swelling. Wasn't able to walk w/o pain for total of about 6 weeks.
About 2 years later, right little toe gets stepped on by shod horse, this time I put the comfrey poultice that I use on my horses on it that night. Toe gets WARM and pain is gone except if I try to flex it against the ground. Used the poultice for the next 4 days. Swelling is completely gone can wear normal shoes. Continue to use the poultice on and off. By end of first week and toe is normal except for color and only hurts if I try to stand on my toes. By end of week two, totally normal, no pain at all.
There were never x-rays, so I can't say that they were broken, but they were all sorts of shade of black and green and swollen to twice their normal size. I have never had anything hurt as bad.
I'd never have believed that comfrey could be so powerful (although it does help the horses) if I hadn't gone through that. This was definitely not a placebo effect because I had to skip 2 months of riding lessons because at first I couldn't wear the boots, then I couldn't take the pressure on my toe. The second time, by the end of week two it was normal. Of the two, the left still bugs me sometimes, but the right (comfrey) never bothers me.
I believe that it brings blood to the area, because it got very warm each time I applied it.
My left little toe got stepped on by shod horse and did the standard medical industry approach. Was in HORRIBLE pain for 5 days and unable to wear ANY shoe because of the pain. Had to wear shoes 4 sizes too big (borrowed from brother) for next 2 weeks due to swelling. Wasn't able to walk w/o pain for total of about 6 weeks.
About 2 years later, right little toe gets stepped on by shod horse, this time I put the comfrey poultice that I use on my horses on it that night. Toe gets WARM and pain is gone except if I try to flex it against the ground. Used the poultice for the next 4 days. Swelling is completely gone can wear normal shoes. Continue to use the poultice on and off. By end of first week and toe is normal except for color and only hurts if I try to stand on my toes. By end of week two, totally normal, no pain at all.
There were never x-rays, so I can't say that they were broken, but they were all sorts of shade of black and green and swollen to twice their normal size. I have never had anything hurt as bad.
I'd never have believed that comfrey could be so powerful (although it does help the horses) if I hadn't gone through that. This was definitely not a placebo effect because I had to skip 2 months of riding lessons because at first I couldn't wear the boots, then I couldn't take the pressure on my toe. The second time, by the end of week two it was normal. Of the two, the left still bugs me sometimes, but the right (comfrey) never bothers me.
I believe that it brings blood to the area, because it got very warm each time I applied it.
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Tucumcari
- Chef de Race: Brilliant
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What about Dr Sheild's bone density machine... anyone ry it or have success with it in shins or factures?
Proverbs 31:8
"...stand up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all those who are destitute.."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QawYXs2e ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIASWv9GYC8
"...stand up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all those who are destitute.."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QawYXs2e ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIASWv9GYC8
KamiBrooks wrote:not laser therapy, but on fractures.
My left little toe got stepped on by shod horse and did the standard medical industry approach. Was in HORRIBLE pain for 5 days and unable to wear ANY shoe because of the pain. Had to wear shoes 4 sizes too big (borrowed from brother) for next 2 weeks due to swelling. Wasn't able to walk w/o pain for total of about 6 weeks.
About 2 years later, right little toe gets stepped on by shod horse, this time I put the comfrey poultice that I use on my horses on it that night. Toe gets WARM and pain is gone except if I try to flex it against the ground. Used the poultice for the next 4 days. Swelling is completely gone can wear normal shoes. Continue to use the poultice on and off. By end of first week and toe is normal except for color and only hurts if I try to stand on my toes. By end of week two, totally normal, no pain at all.
There were never x-rays, so I can't say that they were broken, but they were all sorts of shade of black and green and swollen to twice their normal size. I have never had anything hurt as bad.
I'd never have believed that comfrey could be so powerful (although it does help the horses) if I hadn't gone through that. This was definitely not a placebo effect because I had to skip 2 months of riding lessons because at first I couldn't wear the boots, then I couldn't take the pressure on my toe. The second time, by the end of week two it was normal. Of the two, the left still bugs me sometimes, but the right (comfrey) never bothers me.
I believe that it brings blood to the area, because it got very warm each time I applied it.
How do you make the poultice? It might help my leg which seems to be healing but quite slowly?
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....