How do I get them to gain weight??

Stormchaser · Postby **Stormchaser** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:41 pm

I have 1 mare fresh from the track in the past 6 weeks that is just losing weight every day. Another that was here since March that was doing well and is now going down in weight. Had hay tested, its fine, their teeth are fine, they are wormed. All the other horses are looking good but these 2 I do not want people to see them. They are on grass during the day and my pastures are great after all the rain we got this year. Any ideas?? I am pulling my hair out over these 2!

walaa · Postby **walaa** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:13 am

I have the same problem with my off the tracker. i have 2 hard keeping t-bred mares, and in the summer they eat nothing but grass, thats how much grass I have MOST of the time, a pony that has to go inthe sacrifice area somtimes he is so fat, and another pony that was as skinny as duke when she got here, even skinnier, that has gained a ton of weight on hay and grass. But old Duke just wont gain hardly anything. same as you had teeth checked, all that, the vet and others have said he just needs ALOT of food. I didnt see much difference with weight builder, but I bought another brand yesterday and put him back on it. im putting him on an 11% pro. 10% fat southern states feed even though I have to DRIVE TO ALABAMA to get it :shock:

putting more vegggie oil in feed. My farrier had a national research book with him yesterday, and we went through the formula to find out what you are really getting out of feed, :shock:

alot of formulas

but it turns out (from the formulas anyways) that this horse needs way more protein and fat than he is getting from feed. Which is about the same thing the vet said. I know everywhere you look it says a horse not in work doesnt need much protein, but the formula for deducting dry matter in feed, versus the contents, times the weight of horse, :?:

and it seems that even with the 12 % he is getting now, that he is still lacking hundreds of grams of protein per day that he needs to maintain his weight. so instead of feeding an exta bazillion pounds of grain a day, Im going to the co-op, and buying a bag of soybeanmeal at about 50% protein, adding that to his high fat feed, weight builder, and some oil :shock:

All this for a resell project, when they find out the maintenance, no one will buy him :roll:

I will let youknow in a couple of weeks if the protein thing makes a difference, again, I suspect it will as the vet said this horse needs high protein and high fat, anf alot of it

LKR · Postby **LKR** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:30 am

We have a broodmare who will wean a colt in the next month. She has put so much out for that colt that she looks pretty thin. This has been a problem all of her life according to the previous owners. She is by Kris S. Every one else around her looks great. I will try the soybeanmeal if I can find it. How much does a person feed? We have grain at 14% protein, hay at 18 to 20 per cent protein but obviously it is not enough for her. I will experiment on her. What might be the drawbacks feeding so much protein? I would assume once you got their weight back up you would back off the extra protein?

walaa · Postby **walaa** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:45 am

Im actually not sure, I too have always heard so much prtotein was bad, but then so is too much fat, but my mares do very well in the winter on low protein, high fat feed. hay and grass, but spring through fall, nothing but grass. I guess this is just what this horse needs. Again, Im just reading formulas, but that research council book, after my farrier did the formula for the percentage of feed im getting, then the percentage protein in soybean meal, and it said to feed from 1 1/2 ppounds to 3 pds per day for this horses weight. That would bring him up to what it says for his weight, gramwise, he needs in protein just to maintain himself. I hate the gram thing, I wish they would just do weight, but since all feedstuffs weigh differently I guess that is why they use grams :?:

the soybean meal is about 13 for a fifty pound sack here so thats what I'm trying

Can you even imagine when he finally starts getting worked :shock:

I worried about so much protein and all that too, but I figure he was getting a hell of alot more at the track than he is now :!:

and he looked great when I first saw him, so it cant hurt him to start loading up, he must need it

TrueColours · Postby **TrueColours** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:03 am

I have had terrific luck with the Buckeye line of feeds (closest dealers to you are Avon Feed Mill and Sharpe Feed in Moffat). The Trifecta especially has really worked to put the weight on

I have also used CocoSoya in the past with good results as well as Flax Appeal

We are also going to be (hopefully!) carrying the Blue Seal / Triple Crown line of feeds in the next 4-6 weeks and the closest dealer to you would be Nelles in Wilsonville (5 minutes north of Waterford). They have some products as well that are terrific for horses that cant keep weight on

Crystal · Postby **Crystal** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:00 pm

Blue Seal Mare and Foal plus a Grow Colt and or Mare Plus supplement has been my trick for a fatty broodmare. They come off almost better then when they went on it. OH and the dapples!!!!

Mikki79 · Postby **Mikki79** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:29 pm

We use Vintage Versatility 2 quarts 3x daily with ration plus (have to purchase separately), pasture and they are now getting hay as well and all off the OTTB rescues that we have taken in are beginning to gain weight and are beginning to look alot better.

The key thing that we found out about OTTB's is that if they were EVER given any type of steroid product they are going to lose weight because their digestive system is out of wack. Ration plus will help them digest the food that they intake. Vintage Versatility will help them gain back the weight as it has both rice bran & beet pulp mixed into it.

The grain runs around $17.00 per bag near where I am located and ration plus can be ordered online for $29.95 per bottle. Use them together and you will see a huge difference within 2 weeks. They can be used for all horses including mares in foal and nursing. Hope this helps.

Roger · Postby **Roger** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:51 pm

Your horses maybe going through steroid withdrawal. Check and see how much and how long they had it, if they did have it.

walaa · Postby **walaa** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:15 pm

How do you suggest to check your off the tracker for steroids, and how many, and for how long :?:

Thats ridiculous, I tried on several forums, etc to find info on my Duke, and nothing. So how can you just suggerst to people to check on the steroid level? Unless you are friends of the trainer you got the horse from, you will never know. I didnt even get his JC papers, they either dont want you to now what went on, or, they do care enough to not tell you ANYTHING that might help you rehab your horse, so you dont try and race again, which is cool and I understand, or , well, whatever, you get this animal off the track, no one will tell you anything, and again, thats fine, because I got him and not the dealer. But still it sure would be nice if 1 person in Lexington KY would tell me anything about him, but after a million attempts, I know it will never happen. You cant just say check for how long he was on this steroid, because once they leave the track, at least the ones I have had, no one will speak of them again.

Mikki79 · Postby **Mikki79** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:33 pm

Walaa,

I can understand your frustration in regards to the subject of steroid use. Basically our rule of thumb at our sanctuary is to start all of the OTTB's that are brought in on a joint supplement and ration plus. Neither of these products will cause any injury for a horse and will only assist the horses with their progress and overall health.

http://www.rationplus.com/about_whatis.html

Here is a link to the ration plus website and you can see that they did studies on all types of horses and found that all horses benefited from its use. This is the main reason why we started using it and one bottle will last a horse 80 days. It's well worth it to have and helps with everything from digestive issues to collic. It's an AWESOME product and vintage versatility put 150lbs on one of my horses that suffered rapid weight loss in less than a month.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:26 am

Not to hijack the thread - but I used to retrain and sell a lot of OTTB's and I have a cute story.

I got in a gelding, a REALLY nice horse, but OMG he ran around his stall with a hard on if I put a filly next to him and was quite aggressive. I was new to OTTB's and unfamiliar with 'roids - but a pal pointed me there. My first call was to the trainer - to ask when the guy was gelded and if maybe he was monorchid? Ridgeling? Nope, he was cut at two, he was now four, and they got both... so steroids? Trainer said "Oh no, he never had steroids.." I ran into his barn assistant a few days later and asked about my gelding.. he said "well the last time he ran we gave him about 15cc of Equipoise - 10cc on Monday, 5cc on Wednesday, and he ran Thursday.." So much for the trainer knowing what the heck was going on.

It took about two months for most of the 'roids to wear off. Anyhow, now I just ask the horse.

Sock Monkey · Postby **Sock Monkey** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:19 am

Walaa, your boy has been off the track for some time, right? I seriously doubt steroid withdrawal is the case for him at this time.

Stormchaser - how much are you feeding?

In my experience, most of the time when OTTBs lose weight it's just because they are losing muscle mass and not putting on enough fat to make up for it. Despite their owners' best intentions, most of the time I find they just aren't feeding enough. Even a horse coming off of a high dose of steroids can be maintained in good flesh if you feed enough. (Now, if you have appetite problems, that complicates things of course.)

Evenheaven · Postby **Evenheaven** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:04 pm

I also have retrained many OTTBs and Sockmonkey, I have to respectfully disagree with you about keeping weight on them. Some really struggle at first. Not only are you changing how they work, you change when they work, type of work and complete lifestyle. On top of that there is the "new stress" that they must get used to around their new lifestyle. Some of my newbies that are OTTBs do just fine, others, though, struggle at first. We feed them all they can eat with good quality hay and a 14% protein and they still look thin. I truely believe that they need to get all the steroids out of their bodies and while that happens, they are not easy keepers, and some take much longer than others depending on their personality, past training and present training.... just my 2 cents.

Roger · Postby **Roger** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:45 pm

Stormchaser, I would check with the trainer and see what the new one was on and if you tell him or her that you are finding a new career for one his old charges, most will talk to you. I think you need to assume that your horse was on steroids. If you are feeding a good quality hay and a good balanced ration, and they are still loosing weight after about a month or three, I think I would want to get him to a good clinic and run a blood test, something is not working, if he is getting more calories than he is burning
Walaa, ouch! sorry I did not mean to upset anyone.

walaa · Postby **walaa** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:05 pm

Roger, sorry :oops:

I didnt mean to be so mean, it just came out that way, I apologize. I see way too much meaness and people who post in such a condescending manner, I hate it and I never want to be that way. :oops:

I dont believe, though that most trainers will talk to you AT ALL about horses off the track, unless maybe you know them, or I have spoken to some horse trainers on the canter website that were wonderful. But then, they are going out of their way, so to speak, by taking the time and working with an organization to find horses homes. other than that , good luck!!! maybe its different in TX. I even called the thoroughbred training center's office, they said the trainer listed on my off trackers last reports didnt even have stalls there :?:

And that they had never heard of him :?:

I think it is just way harder than you made it sound to find out WHAT your horse has been on, for HOW long, etc. All horses are different , therein lies the problem, how to figure out all the things that could be going wrong, i have had horses all my life, and every single one had a different metabolism. I just have never had this hard of a keeper before. I think when people post asking advice, we all know that the bottom line is, we are going to have a vet out to give the final say so or whatever, but there is so much knowledge from people on this forum, and experience, that we ask anyways, hoping to try anything before we pay the premium vet price to tell what this particular horse must have. I love the imaginative horse care forum, there are so many wonderful tips there

so again, to Roger, sorry I acted like a pig

that was your advice and i'm sorry i acted like it didnt matter, that would be a great route, just very difficult once you get them home to calculate that kind of stuff. And trainers lie too.

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