Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Understanding pedigrees, inbreeding, dosage, etc.

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ElPrado
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Postby ElPrado » Sat Oct 16, 2010 10:14 am

Name names, Louis.
Airily tossing vague "many trainers" at us means absolutely nothing. You're just blabbing away without evidence. It's just making it up.
Sure Dr Bramlage could tell you... but I don't think he has.

Oh... learn to write English. There is a difference between the words there and their. There is a thing called a dictionary. You really need to get one.

I love it, you can't even spell inbreeding. :lol: You must have seen this post. :D You managed to figure out how to proof read.

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Postby Shammy Davis » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:43 pm

Louis wrote:
Dr. Larry Bramlage could look at all my research of those FB, and would say that is a fantasy search & means nothing. I have been researching sire lines too long, I know I am on the right side of soundness when their is an equal balance of Inbreeding Ph. & NP.


Louis, you crack me up. What research? Larry Bramlage is probably the most noted veterinarian and researcher in Thoroughbred racing. You are out of your league challenging him or any other competent authority on TB breeding.

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Postby lisa_p11 » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:11 pm

Louis what are your thoughts on all of the stallions that S. Korea has been purchasing from the US. The last one was Officer. I believe the article was at Blood Horse.
Lisa

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Postby louis finochio » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:53 am

Officer wll provide an outcross of Fair Play over Ph. that will breed soundness when bred to those mares with prolific crosses of Ph. I dont get The Blood Horse, so if u can post those stallions names that were exported to S. Korea, I'll search their pedigrees. Thanks, Louis.
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Postby louis finochio » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:19 am

FRANKEL (GB) b. C, 2008 DP = 5-2-15-7-1 (30) DI = 0.94 CD = 0.10 - 4 Starts, 4 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: £266,474

Owner: Khalid Abdulla
Breeder: Juddmonte Farms Ltd
Winnings: 4 Starts: 4 - 0 - 0, £266,474

2010 winner of Royal Lodge Stakes (Group2) (Class 1) GB; Dewhurst S (G1)

FRANKEL b. C, 2008
Galileo---Kind, by Danehill

F is a FB thats Inbred to 3 Ph. sire line stallions & mare Natalma 4 X 5 X 5---3 X 4 ND---5 X 5 Buckpasser---4 X 5 Nearctic

F has 17 crosses of NP sire line stallions & mares---15 crosses of Ph.
F did not Inherit a frail FB conformation, thru his Intense Ph. Inbreeding, his conformaton is very robust.

Can F carry his speed & win at those classic distances? The following stamina stallions that contribute stamina in F 5 generation pedigree are:

Prince John, Stage Door Johnny=Prince Rose---Herbager=Dark Ronald---Ribot, His Majesty=Rabelais---Agio, Admirals Voyage, Lombard=Teddy---Forli=Hyperion---Expresso=Swynford---Nearctic, Buckpasser, HTR, Nearco, ND, Sadlers Wells, Rainbow Quest=Ph.

All of those NP & Ph. stallions read turf ability, Have a great run F in your 3 yr. old season.
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Postby louis finochio » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:36 am

Tell your friend Dr. Larry Bramlage that i offer him an Invite to come aboard our forum. It will be a friendly discussion, as I am not a type A. I am a lover not a fighter. All the best Louis.
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Louis Finochio

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ElPrado
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Postby ElPrado » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:21 am

But Louis, you've been calling him your friend, and saying that he approves of your work. Why don't you invite him here, as he is such a good friend of yours I'm sure he'll comply.

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Postby louis finochio » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:05 am

I'll call him on his cell, I will bet against his invite. LOL.
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Postby ireneinwa » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:51 pm

Seems to be Louis bashing going on around here. He's always been polite and kind. Keep up what you believe in Lou!
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Postby Shammy Davis » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:13 pm

From FRANKEL: A TRIBUTE TO BOBBY

Louis wrote:
After Frankel passed away, I was walking thru his shedrow, I had the feeling Bobby was in his office, so I went to his office & looked if Bobby was sitting in his favorite chair. Bobby was there & I asked him if he has seen the change in our Tb thru Inbreeding, I then woke up from my dream. Thanks for the memories Bobby, Your friend Lou the Boot.


Back to this thread.

Ireneinwa wrote:
Seems to be Louis bashing going on around here. He's always been polite and kind. Keep up what you believe in Lou!


Louis previously wrote:
. . . I am not a type A. I am a lover not a fighter. All the best Louis.


Louis is a big boy but just a little out of touch. Ireneinwa, your encouragement is nice, but our fear is that someone may believe Louis and his absurb "Chicken Little knows Phalaris is the culprit theory."

Louis is a wonderful person. I don't know him personally, but we joined the board about the same time and I know he has a wonderful heart. He is polite and kind. He loves horseracing. He loves racehorses. He actually self-published a book on nicking. Everyone who knows him personally say wonderful things about him, but that being said, everyone knows that he doesn't know what he is talking about. No one has posted to this thread in support of his theory. No one. You can check. There have been five years of opportunities and no one has supported this thread. There are many professionals on this board, some published, and none support this theory.

We, we meaning the small number of members who keep track of him, could have turned a blind eye to this thread. Many have. But, turning a blind eye would be wrong. There is nothing in this thread, that Louis calls research, that is either scientific or intellectual. In fact, the information he posts is misleading and false. There are thousands upon thousands of equine researchers and scientists who have spent a lifetime working on equine issues. They are invested financially, intelligently, and emotionally in their work. Many have spent a lifetime working on equine issues without recognition. Allowing Louis, who calls Backstretch Univ his education, to use this board to subvert the research process with anecdotal upon anecdotal evidence is a mistake.

Ireneinwa, you are not the first to encourage Louis w/"Keep up what you believe in Lou." You won't be the last, but ask yourself would you want Louis teaching "equine genetics and breeding" in a school where your friends and relatives of are attending?

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Postby louis finochio » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:48 pm

My late friend Hall of Fame trainer Hirsch Jacobs started like me as a Racing Pigeon Fancier. I bred & raced those RP for 30 years +. If you can breed those superior RP, you can breed superior tb.

Hirsch had a keen eye for claiming Stymie as he went on to greater heights. Hirsch had the ability to match a mare with a stallion & breed superior runners. This was before anyone was using Nicking Patterns to breed to A+ nicks.

Many breeders become rising starts for 1 year, then fall off the charts.
Hirsch never fell off the charts, as his knowledge & keen eye kept him on top for many years.

I know I could become a successful breeder, as I have many friends that have confidence in me to plan their NFB matings, & purchase tbs at auctions. Great sport, great people, great tbs, I have been blessed to have worked on the backstretch for 40 years +.

Goodnight to all, Louis.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby Bast » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:35 pm

louis finochio wrote:I know I could become a successful breeder, as I have many friends that have confidence in me to plan their NFB matings, & purchase tbs at auctions.


One of the things I love about this game is that you never know everything, no matter how much effort you put into learning it. Even great breeders like AB Hancock Jr were not successful all the time--remember Tatan and others imported to stand at Claiborne who left no impression on the breed?

Some people with very deep pockets and profoundly solid resources have not been able to attain inevitable success. Godolphin hasn't won a Kentucky Derby, and neither has the Phipps family. Breeding isn't a game with certainties; the sons of Bull Lea failed as sires; Cigar was sterile; lines rise and fall--and very rarely, as in the case of Man O'War's line when headed towards oblivion, rose again through In Reality.

One great thing this game has taught me is humility, and the sense to keep my mouth shut until the proof was in.

I knew some people in Arabian racing in the early 1980s who were convinced they had the second coming of Eclipse in their barn. [I theorize that their faith was rooted in their "half-mile" training track being more like 3/8s, which worked wonders for the colt's times.] My filly had the lousy taste to beat their colt, and when next we met at Fair Hill in Maryland, these people were predicting that NOT ONLY was their colt going to win, but he would win by 17 lengths. Not by daylight, not by 5 or more lengths, but by specifically 17 lengths. Such predictions only invite the wrath of the racing gods, and so it was for their hapless colt, who finished up the track.

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ElPrado
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Postby ElPrado » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:22 am

I wonder if Louis is such an expert that he can imagine that the reason the stallions he champions so much, that were utter failures as sires, stopped being sires because they were simply lousy sires? The idea of racing is to get faster horses. If you bred to horses that did not produce fast horses, people stopped breeding to them.
Let's see, he will now start spouting that they were slow because the mares were slow. In many cases the imports that would provide his outcross blood simply weren't good sires. The purpose of racing is to breed faster horses. If the stallions failed to produce offspring that could win, no one bred to them. The mares did just fine bred to the stallions that could match with them. When the stallions simply produced runners that were consistently failures as runners, those stallions stopped being bred to. Those stallions were outcrosses, all right. They failed in Europe, so the breeders in Europe sold them to the US breeders. They did just as well over here. The stallions that ran on wet turf in England, Ireland and France couldn't produce to dirt mares over here. There was a reason they weren't successes. They didn't cross well with what they had to breed to. They still wouldn't. The Aga Khan dumped his failures on us. Several times they did succeed. Sorry, Louis, the Ph line was what succeeded. Most other lines didn't produce anything that could be considered a success on any surface. For some reason, the Ph line was bred to, not the horses that did not produce race horses.
After all, that was what the goal was, race horses, not horses that were slow.

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Postby louis finochio » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:45 am

The Ph. sire line is alive & well thru stallions &mares. So we are seeing more Ph. over Ph. matings today than we saw 30-40 years ago. The catalyst of soundness are those NP sire lines thru tail-female, that are in abundance today.

Those FB are not using those NP sire lines thru those NP sire line mares. They are breeding speed to speed, as most all those NP sire lines are stamina.

As gold needs a catalyst, so does our tb, thats why we are having high degrees of unsoundness today. I dont have the stats, but I would bet the farm that we are breeding more unraced tb thru FB today than years ago when those NP sire line stallions were at their peak.
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Postby louis finochio » Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:23 am

From time to time I recieve E-Mail from tb owners & breeders, that are looking for a responsible trainer, that has the knowledge of training. I am going to give my opinion of our trainers in Southern Calif. It will be a reference for those owners & breeders that are seeking a quality trainer.

Barry Abrams trains about 30 tb, he claimed Unusual Heat from Richard Mandella for 80,000. Barry has prolific numbers of UH offspring, that he has run back within a week or less, as UH is not a FB.

A. C. Avila trains about 30 tbs, good responsible trainer, has the patience to run his tb when their ready.

Herbert Bacorn, small trainer, trains about 10 tb, he is from the old school of training, as he puts a foundation on his tb before they run.

Bob Baffert, Hall of Fame trainer that has a keen eye for tbs that are off, or right on. trains 120 tb. Has a good eye for selecting quality tbs at auctions.

to continue.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio