Man O'War and Teddy and his Sons

[Bettina]

Hello,
maybe it is of interest that the Sireline of Teddy was extended for a few generations.
1) Lombard via a French son of Teddy named Aethelstan
2) Windwurf via Asterus Teddy
Bothe throroghbreds were great Racehorses and good sires, abnd 1 or 2 sons at stud, but hrey wereN#t able to continue the male line.

Lombard is the Sire of Allegretta, now ancestress of Sea the Stars, Galileo etc.

There in Germany was another son of Teddy, his name was Aventin, according my informations he was after 1945 brought to the U.S. Remember the time and the post war Germany, it's very likely ihe never reached the shores of the U.S.

A Sire with an Italian breeding background by Teddy was Ortello. I read the first time in the "Great Thoroughbred Stallion of the World", he was exported to U.S. (California). At the "Info" of this Sire , the name of the stud is mentioned. On the other hand no American bred progeny is listed. Maybe he died before he could be breed

Regards, Bettina

[cewright]

I am not sure if this is what you are looking for but... The useful mare Won't Tell You http://www.pedigreequery.com/wont+tell+you was sired by Crafty Admiral, a tail male descendent of Teddy through Sir Gallahad and Fighting Fox. The dam sire of Crafty Admiral is War Admiral, sired by MOW.

Scarlett Ribbon, dam of Won't Tell you, returns two additional crosses to Teddy through Sir Gallahad, including Native Gal, by Sir Gallahad out of Native Wit - Fair Play. Of course Fair Play is the sire of MOW.

Wont Tell You won 5 of 23 starts. She is the dam of Century Gold, winner of 36 races out of 136 starts, GSP runners Love You Dear, Silent Fox, and Won't She Tell, as well as the mighty Affirmed.

Edited to correct spelling

[Pan Zareta]

There in Germany was another son of Teddy, his name was Aventin, according my informations he was after 1945 brought to the U.S. Remember the time and the post war Germany, it's very likely ihe never reached the shores of the U.S.

Bettina, are you certain about the date that Aventin was brought to the US? Several 1947 German-bred foals are attributed to him in the database here. As far as I know most of the German horses bought or confiscated by the US Army of occupation arrived here in late 1945. There is evidence that Aventin was in the US by 1947. Application was made to the JC for registration of a 1948 colt by Aventin out of TB mare Golden Tone (1932 x *Golden Guinea), but was denied because Aventin had not been accepted into the American Stud Book. (None of the TBs brought from Germany to the USA in 1945 were accepted into the ASB until 1953, and then it was just *Athanasius, *Nordlicht, *Samurai, and *Taj Akbar.)

[vineyridge]

Ortello was the sire of a stallion named Sirte, who was in the United States and is rather famous for steeplechasers. There is a male line descendant named Castle Cove in Virginia who stands for sport horse show hunters. It's Sirte, Clavier, Castle Magic/Castle Cove. I'm not certain, but he may be the only tail male Teddy left today in the US.

I agree that several generations down the pike MOW lines and Teddy lines were crossed with good success. But from my admittedly cursory investigation, those crosses weren't happening very often in the pre WWII era.

I was just wondering why.

PZ, whatever happened with the US Bred Athanasius foals? I was not aware that he had been snaffled as war reparations. In fact, I don't know if I've seen him anywhere except as the sire of Ticino.

[Bast]

PZ, whatever happened with the US Bred Athanasius foals? I was not aware that he had been snaffled as war reparations. In fact, I don't know if I've seen him anywhere except as the sire of Ticino.

They appear to have languished in obscurity.

[Pan Zareta]

The confiscated and purchased German horses were sold at auction 1946 by the US Remount Svc. three years before the JC allowed their eligible progeny/produce to be registered even for racing purposes and seven years before any of them were admitted to the ASB. Obviously, their value in 1946 was a fraction of what it should have been. When the JC approved four into the ASB in 1953 *Nordlicht was actually covering in France where he'd already been admitted to their stud book. He came back to the USA shortly thereafter.

*Athanasius was eventually a successful and popular sire here - in Colorado. The last stakes winner I can think of with him in the pedigree was of the QH variety.

[vineyridge]

Speaking of WWII and stallions, I was looking at Bubbles, a leading sire in France pre war, and one of the very last Hermit sire line stallions. He was taken to Germany and returned to France after the war. Rothschild stallion. PQ only has him with 4 post war foals, and two of those were the sons who bred on.

Now I'm wondering how much the events of WWII contributed to the death of the Hermit sire line. One of his best racing sons, Tricameron, was taken to Germany and died during the war.

There really is a book in the stories of TBs who were taken (or left behind, per Mumtaz Mahal) and repatriated during and after the war. Has anyone done one? Hadn't really thought before about the effects on the gene pool of that aspect of the War.

[Pan Zareta]

...I was looking at Bubbles, a leading sire in France pre war, and one of the very last Hermit sire line stallions...

...in the TB.

In the QH Hermit's sire line flourishes via Three Bars.

[Bettina]

Hello,
I'm not quite sure, if you mean the French Sire Relic (tracing to Spectre) or the War Relic (by Man O'War). in the case of the last mentioned Sire, here in German stands a new Sire named Contat (by Diktat) tracing back to the influential American Sire Man O'War via War Relic (o/o Friars Carse) - Intent - Intentionally - In Reality - Known Fact - Warning - Diktat.

Pan Zareta:
*Aventin was quite a new name for me, from the list of German Thoroughbreds brought to the U.S. aftzer WWII. At least i found an reference in the the Book by Mr. Stoffregen-Büller(published by Olms Edition): Schlender, page 345, Samurai, Aventin, Anemone with foal at feet went to the U.S.

regards, Bettina
P.S. the abovementioned book deals more with family, who runs the Schlenderhan now in 6th generation, then with breeding background" of their horses, nevertheless it's an interessing reading material