Louis's Blog on Inbreeding

Understanding pedigrees, inbreeding, dosage, etc.

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Postby Shammy Davis » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:29 pm


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Postby louis finochio » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:54 am

WHO DONE THAT (USA) ch. G, 2005 DP = 22-10-15-1-0 (48) DI = 4.65 CD = 1.10 - 7 Starts, 1 Wins, 1 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $36,265

Owner: Alex G. Campbell Jr.
Breeder: Alex G. Campbell, Jr. Thoroughbreds, LLC
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 7 Starts: 1 - 1 - 0, $36,265

Foaled May 3, 2005.
Broke down at Gulfstream Park, February 6, 2009.

WHO DONE THAT ch. G, 2005
Carson City---Rodes Heartnut, by Strodes Creek

WDT was a Fashion Bred with 27 crosses of Ph. sire line stallions out of a posible 30 in his 5 generation pedigree.

WDT was Inbred 2 X 4 Mr. P. Polynesian branch Ph.---3 X 5 RAN, Polynesian branch Ph.---4 X 5 X 5 ND, Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 Nasrullah, Nearco branch Ph.---3 X 5 Gold Digger mare by Nashua, Nearco branch Ph.

This was another high risk Fashion Bred mating that sustained an early career ending injury. All the Inbreeding was thru those Ph. sire line individuals. When Inbreeding to those NP sire line stallions or mares, the mating becomes a low risk for injuries & breakdowns, that is what this mating was void of.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

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Postby louis finochio » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:23 am

STORMFEST (USA) ch. C, 2003 DP = 6-2-8-0-0 (16) DI = 3.00 CD = 0.88

State Bred: KY

$290,000 yearling, KeeSep04.
Suffered a fatal injury in a race at Santa Anita, Dec. 31 2005.

STORMFEST ch. C, 2003
Giants Causeway---Isle Go West, by Gone West

Stormfest was a Fashion Bred with 27 crosses of Ph. sire line stallions in his 5 generation pedigree.

S was inbred 4 X 4 Secretariat, Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 Bold Ruler, Nearco branch Ph.

S had 1 cross each of those Ph. Foundation stallions that have caused the most injuries & beakdowns thru Inbreeding, those siallions are:

Storm Cat, Mr. P., Secretariat 2 crosses, RAN, ND, Nearctic, Bold Ruler 2 crosses, Hail to Reason, Native Dancer, Nashua, Tom Fool.

Stormfest pedigree is deceving, when u first look at his pedigree u just see the Inbreeding to Secretariat & Bold Ruler, but when u add up those Ph. sire line stallions in his pedigree, u can see why he only had 1 start.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

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Postby louis finochio » Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:44 am

FINALLYMADEIT (USA) ch. C, 2004 DP = 9-8-9-4-0 (30) DI = 2.53 CD = 0.73 - 47 Starts, 16 Wins, 7 Places, 5 Shows Career Earnings: $1,026,640

Owner: Rolbea Thoroughbred Racing
Breeder: Rolando Rodriguez & Rolbea Stables
State Bred: FL
Winnings: 47 Starts: 16 - 7 - 5, $1,026,640

At 3:
Won Jack Dudley Sprint H., Radar Love S., Hooting Star S., Whippleton S., Major Moran S., Valid Video S.
2nd Go to Will S., Ambehaving S., Eillo S., Kenny Noe Jr. H.
3rd Ponche H.
At 4:
Won Band Is Passing S., Memorial Day S.
2nd Sumter S.
3rd Mr. Prospector H. (G3)

At 5:
Won Skip Away S. (G3), Memorial Day H. (G3)
2nd Donn H. (G1), Gulfstream Park H. (G2)
3rd James Marvin S.

Foaled March 30, 2004.
Euthanized after fracturing his left front cannon bone during a workout at Saratoga, August 4, 2009.

FINALLYMADEIT ch. C, 2004
Concerto---Gold For My Gal, by Gold Alert

FMI is a Non-Fashion Bred with a balance of NP & Ph sire lines.
FMI is Inbred 3 X 5 In Reality branch Fair Play---4 X 5 ND Nearco branch Ph.---3 X 4 Mr. P. Polynesian branch Ph.

Those NP outcross stallions that appear in FMI 5 generation pedigree are: Valid Appeal by In Reality by Intentionally by Intent=Fair Play---Arts and Letters by Ribot=Rabelais---Quadrangle=Swynford---Acroterion=Ben Brush---Rough n Tumble=Questionnaire---Admirals Voyage, Swoons Son=Teddy.

FMI inherited his soundness thru those NP outcross stallions that broke up his Inbreeding to those Ph. foundation stallions. Congrats to FMI breeder in breeding for soundness.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby docjocoy » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:21 am

louis finochio wrote:FINALLYMADEIT (USA) ch. C, 2004 DP = 9-8-9-4-0 (30) DI = 2.53 CD = 0.73 - 47 Starts, 16 Wins, 7 Places, 5 Shows Career Earnings: $1,026,640

Owner: Rolbea Thoroughbred Racing
Breeder: Rolando Rodriguez & Rolbea Stables
State Bred: FL
Winnings: 47 Starts: 16 - 7 - 5, $1,026,640

At 3:
Won Jack Dudley Sprint H., Radar Love S., Hooting Star S., Whippleton S., Major Moran S., Valid Video S.
2nd Go to Will S., Ambehaving S., Eillo S., Kenny Noe Jr. H.
3rd Ponche H.
At 4:
Won Band Is Passing S., Memorial Day S.
2nd Sumter S.
3rd Mr. Prospector H. (G3)

At 5:
Won Skip Away S. (G3), Memorial Day H. (G3)
2nd Donn H. (G1), Gulfstream Park H. (G2)
3rd James Marvin S.

Foaled March 30, 2004.
Euthanized after fracturing his left front cannon bone during a workout at Saratoga, August 4, 2009.

FINALLYMADEIT ch. C, 2004
Concerto---Gold For My Gal, by Gold Alert

FMI is a Non-Fashion Bred with a balance of NP & Ph sire lines.
FMI is Inbred 3 X 5 In Reality branch Fair Play---4 X 5 ND Nearco branch Ph.---3 X 4 Mr. P. Polynesian branch Ph.

Those NP outcross stallions that appear in FMI 5 generation pedigree are: Valid Appeal by In Reality by Intentionally by Intent=Fair Play---Arts and Letters by Ribot=Rabelais---Quadrangle=Swynford---Acroterion=Ben Brush---Rough n Tumble=Questionnaire---Admirals Voyage, Swoons Son=Teddy.

FMI inherited his soundness thru those NP outcross stallions that broke up his Inbreeding to those Ph. foundation stallions. Congrats to FMI breeder in breeding for soundness.

I don't understand, Louis. How is this nonfashionbred's breakdown different than a fashion-bred's breakdown? Finallymadeit was only 5. Why is his breeder to be congratulated for breeding a sound horse? Is there a difference in the type of breakdown between a fashionbred and nonfashionbred? Is FMI's breakdown not as bad because he is a non-fashionbred? He still had to be euthanized, after all. RIP Finallymadeit.

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Postby louis finochio » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:09 am

FMI started 47 times, & was still racing at 5. Those NF B are not breaking their bones, their injuries are not major like i have seen with those Fashion Breds.
Those Fashion Breds have a lower bone density thru a surplus if Inbreeding to 1 sire line. When u add an outcross like i have posted in a prolific number of examples we can see a stronger bone density inherited,as the conformation takes on a new appearance of strength & an iron constution follows suit.

I have seen 2% of those FB start 45 times & up. that means 98 % of those FB dont attain that many lifetime starts.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby louis finochio » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:20 am

INFORMED (USA) b. C, 2004 DP = 2-1-5-0-0 (8) DI = 2.20 CD = 0.63 - 20 Starts, 6 Wins, 5 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $526,000

Owner: Bob and Beverly Lewis Trust
Breeder: Ernest C. Frohboese
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 20 Starts: 6 - 5 - 1, $526,000

At 5:
Won Californian S. (G2,Hol,9F), San Diego H. (G2,Dmr,8.5F)
2nd San Pasqual H. (G2,SA,8.5F)

Foaled May 14, 2004.
$500K KEESEPT'05

INFORMED b. C, 2006
Tiz Now---Cajun Two Step, by Tabasco Cat

Informed is a Non-Fashion Bred with 8 crosses Ph.---8 crosses NP thru his sires.
Informed is Inbred 5 X 5 X 5 ND, Nearco branch Ph.

Informed was bred from the In Reality branch of Fair Play Sire Side over ND branch of Nearco Dam Side, which is an outcross mating.

Informed was claimed before becoming a GR SW, Informed is now a potential stallion. Congrats to his new owners for claiming a quality Tb.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby xfactor fan » Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:11 pm

Louis here's a direct challenge.

http://www.foaltrack.com/

FoalTrack is a great new site where folks can post pictures of their own or favorite TB's. They are also getting photos and data from the 2009 Saratoga Fasig-Tipton select yearling catalog.

Here's the challenge. Go ahead and rate ALL the yearlings in the sale as fashion bred, or outcross. Post your ratings in the comment field. We'll all be able to track the progress--or lack of it as these yearlings go to new homes and racing careers.

This will give you an opportunity to prove your theories in a scientific manner.

There are 235 yearlings listed by hip number. Sire, dam and date of birth is included on the site. About half of the yearlings have photos up, and more are in the works, the intent is to have photos posted of all the horses in the sale.

So Louis, you game?

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Postby louis finochio » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:27 am

FLASHING (USA) ch. F, 2006 DP = 12-13-23-0-0 (48) DI = 3.17 CD = 0.77 - 7 Starts, 5 Wins, 0 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $412,560

Owner: Godolphin Stable
Breeder: Gainsborough Farm LLC
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 7 Starts: 5 - 0 - 1, $412,560

At 3: Won Test S. (G1,Sar,7F), Nassau County S. (G3,Bel,7F); 3rd Mother Goose S. (G1,Bel,9F)

Foaled March 5, 2006.

FLASHING ch. F, 2006
A P Indy---Morning pride, by Machiavellian

Flashing is a Fashion Bred with 16 crosses Ph.---16 crosses NP thru her sires & dams.

Flashing is Inbred 4 X 5 Bold Ruler, Nearco branch Ph---5 X 5 Hail to Reason, Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 Natalma, Polynesian branch Ph.

When a Fashion Bred has a balance of 16 crosses Ph.---16 crosses NP, the mating becomes a low risk for unsoundness, as the equal crosses of NP add strength to the bone density.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby louis finochio » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:46 am

Thanks for posting the Foaltrack site, I will break down those pedigrees & separate the wheat from the chaff. In the 3 years of research since starting this thread I have increased my knowledge of Inbreeding & Breakdowns. As i am a pedigree researcher I always have an open mind to learn more. I look forward to this project, to breed a sound tb. Louis.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby louis finochio » Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:00 am

ENDLESS MOON (USA) ch. G, 2006 DP = 9-5-12-0-0 (26) DI = 3.33 CD = 0.88 - 2 Starts, 0 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $800

Owner: Jump Sucker Stable
Breeder: Delong Farm
State Bred: KY

Foaled February 7, 2006.
OBS'08 $95,000 2yo
Euthanized after breaking down in a race at Del Mar, August 9, 2009.

ENDLESS MOON G, 2006
Malibu Moon---Endless Sea, by Mt. Livermore

EM was a Fashion Bred with 25 crosses of Ph sire line stallions in his 5 generation pedigree.
EM was inbred 3 X 4 Mr. P. Polynesian branch Ph.---4 X 5 RAN, Polynesian branch Ph.---5 X 5 Buckpasser, Pharamond branch Ph.

EM has a prolific number of those Ph. sire line Foundation Stallions that have caused the most injuries & breakdowns thru Inbreeding, these stallions are: Mr. P. 2 crosses---Secretariat---RAN 2 crosses---ND---Buckpasser 2 crosses---Nasrullah---Native Dancer---Bold Ruler---Nashua.

EM has 90 % Ph. & 10 % NP sire lines. There was no balance of Ph. & NP in this mating.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby louis finochio » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:55 am

DYNAFORCE (USA) b. F, 2003 DP = 5-2-22-1-4 (34) DI = 1.13 CD = 0.09 - 15 Starts, 5 Wins, 3 Places, 3 Shows Career Earnings: $1,080,649

Owner: John A. Chandler
Breeder: Dr. John A. Chandler
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 15 Starts: 5 - 3 - 3, $1,080,649

At 3: Won Prix Charles Lafitte (FR-L); 3rd Prix de Liancourt (FR-L)
At 4: 3rd Prix Jean Romanet (FR-G2)
At 5: Won Flower Bowl Invitational H. (USA-G1,Bel,10FT); 2nd Diana S. (USA-G1,Sar,9FT)
At 6: Won Beverly D. H. (USA-G1,AP,9.5FT); 3rd Modesty H. (USA-G3,AP,8.5FT)

Foaled March 23, 2003.
Began career in France. Sent to U.S. age 5.

DYNAFORCE b. F, 2003
Dynaformer---Aletta Maria, by Diesis

Dynaforce is a Non-Fashion Bredwith an outcross pedigree & no duplication of Inbreeding in her 5 generation pedigree.

Dynaforce has 4 crosses Ph. thru Royal Charger, Nasrullah, Native Dancer, ND.---3 crosses Gainsborough thru Alibhai, Heliopolis, Rockefella.
3 crosses Teddy thru Bull Lea, Hasty Road, Tantieme.---2 cross Rabelais thru Tenerani, Tom Rolfe.---2 cross Swynford thru Crepello, Boran.---1 cross Peter Pan thru Blue Swords.---1 cross Sundridge thru Count Fleet.

This is a brillant Non-Fashion mating of soundness, as the 4 crosses of Ph. is on the low side. Those NP sire lines bring a balance into the mating, that is not dominated by those 9-13 crosses of Ph. that we have seen in those Fashion Breds. Congrats to the breeder of Dynaforce in breeding for soundness.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby louis finochio » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:25 am

CHRISTY'S WISH b. C 2006
El Corredor---One for the Road, by Carson City

CW was a Fashion Bred, & broke down after 1 start.
CW had 31 crosses of Ph. sire line stallions out of a possible 31.
CW was Inbred 4 X 5 Mr. P. polynesian branch Ph.---4 X 5 RAN, polynesian branch Ph.---4 X 5 Bold Ruler, Nearco branch Ph.

In all my years of pedigree research I have never seen 31 crosses of Ph. sire line stallions in a 5 generation pedigree before.
This Fashion Bred mating was void of those NP stallions thru Inbreeding & single crosses to provide the outcross for soundness.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby louis finochio » Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:10 am

PEANUT RIDGE (USA) ch. C, 2007 DP = 3-1-4-0-0 (8) DI = 3.00 CD = 0.88 - 1 Starts, 0 Wins, 0 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: Unplaced

Breeder: West Point Thoroughbreds Inc.
State Bred: FL

Foaled April 20, 2007.
Euthanized after breaking down while training a Del Mar, July 2009.

PEANUT RIDGE ch. C, 2007
Snow Ridge---Anna's Girl, by Distorted Humor

PR was a Fashion Bred with 25 crosses of Ph. sire line stallions in his 5 generation pedigree.

PR was Inbred 4 X 4 Mr. P. Polynesian branch Ph.---5 X 5 RAN, Polynesian branch Ph.---5 X 5 ND, Nearco branch Ph.---4 X 5 Gold Digger mare by Nashua, Nearco branch Ph.

Another example of a Fashion Bred individual that sustained an early career ending injury. The missing link for soundness in this Fashion Bred mating was no NP Inbreeding to offset the Inbreeding to those Ph. sire line individuals.
Those without sin cast the first stone.

Louis Finochio

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Postby Georgerz » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:46 pm

Louis: Star Over The Bay (from your first post in this thread), according to you only has 7 crosses of Phalaris, therefore is a non fashion bred. It broke down, never the less. So after 220 pages, the only thing that is clear to me is: If a horse breaks down is a fashion bred. If not, is a non-fashion bred. But how do you qualify those horses that are unraced, or race just a few times without breaking down?