STAR OVER THE BAY (USA) gr/r. G, 1998 DP = 3-7-13-1-2 (26) DI = 1.74 CD = 0.31 - 42 Starts, 10 Wins, 4 Places, 3 Shows Career Earnings: $917,353
Owner: G Racing, VanBurger and Vaughn
Breeder: Four Horsemen's Ranch
State Bred: FL
Winnings: 42 Starts: 10 - 4 - 3, $917,353
At 2: 3rd World Appeal S (T), Continental Mile S (T).
At 3: 3rd Floor Show H (T).
At 6: Won Clement Hirsch Mem S.(gr. I), Del Mar H (gr. IIT), Sunset H (gr. IIT); 2nd Dallas Turf Cup H (T). At 7 Won Sunshine Millions Turf (R)
Foaled: February 5th, 1998
humanely euthanized on May 15th, 2005 after fracturing his off fore sesamoid during the Singapore International Cup. Rest in peace brave boy. You will forever shine down upon us.Much loved and forever missed
SOTB started 42 times & raced till 6. SOTB had a balance of 16 crosses NP stallions & 15 crosses Ph. stallios in his 5 generation pedigree.
A prolific number of Non-Fashion Breds do breakdown but average more lifetime starts than those FB. Those NFB will work their way back, afer R & R, but those FB will not.
Those FB are breaking their bones as their Inbreeding is causing them to have a low bone density vs those NFB.
There is a hi % of FB that become unraced, as I have posted many examples of them in my back posts. All of those FB are Inbred to the same foundation stallions & mares.
Not all of those FB thru Inbreeding to those Foundation Stallions & mares will break down, but a hi % of them do. The key to breeding for soundness is to have an equal balance of sire lines like Mine Than Bird 16--16, as those equal balance of NP & PH. add stronger bone density.
Louis's Blog on Inbreeding
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louis finochio
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Georgerz wrote:... So after 220 pages, the only thing that is clear to me is: If a horse breaks down it is a fashion bred. If not, it's a non-fashion bred. ...
And you are not the only one - even Louis's friend, the young trainer eager to learn, shares this view.
Best posting since I-don't-know-when in this thread - isn't life easy?
Btw: Did @L. start to rate the horses mentioned on the website shown by x-factor-fan? Or must they break down before @L. will give his ultimate vote?
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louis finochio
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TELLING (USA) b. H, 2004 DP = 8-14-20-0-0 (42) DI = 3.20 CD = 0.71 - 15 Starts, 5 Wins, 3 Places, 4 Shows Career Earnings: $468,626
Owner: Joanne & Alex Lieblong
Breeder: Darley
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 15 Starts: 5 - 3 - 4, $468,626
At 4: 2nd Stars and Stripes Turf H. (G3T); 3rd Sycamore S. (G3T), River City H. (G3T)
At 5: Won Sword Dancer Inv. H. (G1T); 2nd Chester House S. (AP,8.5fT)
Foaled April 12, 2004.
TELLING b. H, 2004
A P INDY---Well Chosen, by Deputy Minister
Telling is a Non-Fashion Bred with 18 crosses NP---14 crosses Ph. thru his sires & dams.
Telling is Inbred 3 X 3 Secretariat, Nearco branch Ph.---4 X 4 X 5 Bold Ruler, Nearco branch Ph.---4 X 4 Somethingroyal mare by Princequillo=Prince Rose outcross.---5 X 5 Miss Disco mare by Discovery=Fair Play outcross.
This is a brillant mating for soundness & durability, as the equal Inbreeding thru Ph. & NP create soundness, because those three sire lines are an outcross from each other. Congrats to Telling's breeder Darley in breeding for soundness.
Owner: Joanne & Alex Lieblong
Breeder: Darley
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 15 Starts: 5 - 3 - 4, $468,626
At 4: 2nd Stars and Stripes Turf H. (G3T); 3rd Sycamore S. (G3T), River City H. (G3T)
At 5: Won Sword Dancer Inv. H. (G1T); 2nd Chester House S. (AP,8.5fT)
Foaled April 12, 2004.
TELLING b. H, 2004
A P INDY---Well Chosen, by Deputy Minister
Telling is a Non-Fashion Bred with 18 crosses NP---14 crosses Ph. thru his sires & dams.
Telling is Inbred 3 X 3 Secretariat, Nearco branch Ph.---4 X 4 X 5 Bold Ruler, Nearco branch Ph.---4 X 4 Somethingroyal mare by Princequillo=Prince Rose outcross.---5 X 5 Miss Disco mare by Discovery=Fair Play outcross.
This is a brillant mating for soundness & durability, as the equal Inbreeding thru Ph. & NP create soundness, because those three sire lines are an outcross from each other. Congrats to Telling's breeder Darley in breeding for soundness.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
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louis finochio
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Ben: I am working on Victoria S, (HOL), i will post it later, thanks louis.
I talked to StarOver the Bay's groom today, I asked him how sound of a horse was SOTB, he told me he was very sound, without any major problems. SOTB was very intelligent, & kind in his stall, a class TB all the way.
I talked to StarOver the Bay's groom today, I asked him how sound of a horse was SOTB, he told me he was very sound, without any major problems. SOTB was very intelligent, & kind in his stall, a class TB all the way.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
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VICTORIA S (HOL) b. F, 2006 DP = 1-0-1-0-2 (4) DI = 0.60 CD = -0.50 - 3 Starts, 0 Wins, 0 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: € 900
Owner: M.M. v.d. Heyden
Breeder: M.M. v.d. Heyden
VICTORIA S. (HOL) b. F, 2006
Auenadler---Christine S. by Risk Me
VS is a Non-Fashion Bred with an outcross pedigree & no duplication of Inbreeding.
VS has 20 crosses NP---12 crosses Ph. thru her sires & dams.
The speed of Ph. thru Auenadler is much desired as the prolific crosses of those stamina NP sire line stalliions that appear in VS pedigree are: Gainsborough 5 crosses---Dark Ronald 3 crosses---Orby 3 crosses---Swynford 2 crosses---Rabelais 2 crosses---Tourbillon 2 crosses---Prince Rose 1 cross.
VS has more stamina than speed in her immediate family, as we can see in those NP sire line stallions above. VS will excell on turf & distance, as her pedigree reads so. Good Luck with her Ben.
Owner: M.M. v.d. Heyden
Breeder: M.M. v.d. Heyden
VICTORIA S. (HOL) b. F, 2006
Auenadler---Christine S. by Risk Me
VS is a Non-Fashion Bred with an outcross pedigree & no duplication of Inbreeding.
VS has 20 crosses NP---12 crosses Ph. thru her sires & dams.
The speed of Ph. thru Auenadler is much desired as the prolific crosses of those stamina NP sire line stalliions that appear in VS pedigree are: Gainsborough 5 crosses---Dark Ronald 3 crosses---Orby 3 crosses---Swynford 2 crosses---Rabelais 2 crosses---Tourbillon 2 crosses---Prince Rose 1 cross.
VS has more stamina than speed in her immediate family, as we can see in those NP sire line stallions above. VS will excell on turf & distance, as her pedigree reads so. Good Luck with her Ben.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
louis finochio wrote: ....VS has more stamina than speed in her immediate family, as we can see in those NP sire line stallions above. VS will excell on turf & distance, as her pedigree reads so. Good Luck with her Ben.
Well, well, dear Chap: but where is the stamina with horses like Auenadler, Big Shuffle, Risk Me, ... Be Friendly so close up in ancestry?
In GER Victoria would run over 6-7 f with such a pedigree.
Nevertheless: good Luck with her, Ben - remember lovely Mellanie S., who was ahead of V. at comparable time of year.
Louis, i,ll praise you for your work.
Her sole start over our 12 furlong, was the whole issue why she ran in my hands. Her owner was giving the half away to me after the race.
She was dead stone last held up after 11 furlong.
Still to finish that race after one month.
But we will see.
Parlo: we still are not over the loss from Mellanie S, but life goes on
Her sole start over our 12 furlong, was the whole issue why she ran in my hands. Her owner was giving the half away to me after the race.
She was dead stone last held up after 11 furlong.
Still to finish that race after one month.
But we will see.
Parlo: we still are not over the loss from Mellanie S, but life goes on
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MAGICAL FANTASY (USA) ch. F, 2005 DP = 6-1-11-4-4 (26) DI = 0.93 CD = 0.04 - 16 Starts, 5 Wins, 4 Places, 0 Shows Career Earnings: $859,231
Owner: David Bienstock, Paul Mandabach & Charles Winner
Breeder: Rodes S. Parrish & Charles Beach, IV
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 16 Starts: 5 - 4 - 0, $859,231
At 3: Won Del Mar Oaks (G1T); 2nd Senorita S.(G3T)
At 4: Won Gamely S. (G1T), John C. Mabee H. (G1T), Santa Barbara H. (G2T); 2nd La Canada S. (G2)
MAGICAL FANTASY ch. F, 2005
Diesis---Kissing Gate, by Easy Goer
MF is a Non-Fashion Bred with 24 crosses NP---8 crosses Ph. thru her sires & dams.
MF is Inbred 4 X 5 Native Dancer, Polynesian branch Ph.
MF has 15 crosses NP & 1 cross Ph. thru her dams, which is very against the norm. The sire line of those dams that appear in MF 5 generation pedigree that are not found in modern pedigrees of the present are: Elf---Chaucer---Spearmint---Perth---Massine.
MF has 4-1 more crosses of NP than Ph, a big plus for soundness. Congrats to MF breeder in breeding for soundness.
Owner: David Bienstock, Paul Mandabach & Charles Winner
Breeder: Rodes S. Parrish & Charles Beach, IV
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 16 Starts: 5 - 4 - 0, $859,231
At 3: Won Del Mar Oaks (G1T); 2nd Senorita S.(G3T)
At 4: Won Gamely S. (G1T), John C. Mabee H. (G1T), Santa Barbara H. (G2T); 2nd La Canada S. (G2)
MAGICAL FANTASY ch. F, 2005
Diesis---Kissing Gate, by Easy Goer
MF is a Non-Fashion Bred with 24 crosses NP---8 crosses Ph. thru her sires & dams.
MF is Inbred 4 X 5 Native Dancer, Polynesian branch Ph.
MF has 15 crosses NP & 1 cross Ph. thru her dams, which is very against the norm. The sire line of those dams that appear in MF 5 generation pedigree that are not found in modern pedigrees of the present are: Elf---Chaucer---Spearmint---Perth---Massine.
MF has 4-1 more crosses of NP than Ph, a big plus for soundness. Congrats to MF breeder in breeding for soundness.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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EL GATO MALO (USA) dkb/br. G, 2005 DP = 5-0-3-0-0 (8) DI = 4.33 CD = 1.25 - 11 Starts, 5 Wins, 1 Places, 1 Shows Career Earnings: $488,800
Owner: West Point Throughbreds Inc.
Breeder: Kenneth C. Roberts
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 11 Starts: 5 - 1 - 1, $488,800
At 2: Won Gold Rush S. (GG,8F)
At 3: Won San Rafael S. (G3,SA,8F), Lone Star Derby (G3,LS,8.5F); 2nd Sham S. (G3,SA,9F); 3rd Sir Beaufort S. (SA,8F)
At 4: Won McCann's Mojave S. (GG,8.5F)
Foaled February 6, 2005.
FTKyOct06 $95k
Broke stakes and track record for one mile in the San Rafael Stakes, 1:33.37.
EL GATO MALO br. G, 2005
El Corredor---One Bad Cat, by Mountain Cat
EGM was a Fashion Bred with 29 crosses of Ph. sire line stallions out of a possible 31 in his 5 generation pedigree.
EGM was Inbred 4 X 5 Mr. P. Polynesian branch Ph.---4 X 5 RAN, Polynesian branch Ph.---5 X 5 Secretariat, Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 Never Bend, Nearco branch Ph.
EGM was bred from a high risk fashion mating. EGM didnt break down, but had some minor problems nothing major. I always asked Craig Dollase EGM trainer how he was doing physically. Craig told me he was having some minor problems.
Six months later I asked Craig how EGM was doing, & he said EGM was at the farm for R & R. Craig wanted to know why I kept asking him about EGM condition.
I told Craig EGM was Inbred to the max, & I was researching all those Fashion Breds that were sustaining career ending Injuries. Craig was very interested in my research project, & told me that EGM had a prolific number of mental problems, that he now understands why EGM inherited these mental problems thru his prolific Inbreeding.
Owner: West Point Throughbreds Inc.
Breeder: Kenneth C. Roberts
State Bred: KY
Winnings: 11 Starts: 5 - 1 - 1, $488,800
At 2: Won Gold Rush S. (GG,8F)
At 3: Won San Rafael S. (G3,SA,8F), Lone Star Derby (G3,LS,8.5F); 2nd Sham S. (G3,SA,9F); 3rd Sir Beaufort S. (SA,8F)
At 4: Won McCann's Mojave S. (GG,8.5F)
Foaled February 6, 2005.
FTKyOct06 $95k
Broke stakes and track record for one mile in the San Rafael Stakes, 1:33.37.
EL GATO MALO br. G, 2005
El Corredor---One Bad Cat, by Mountain Cat
EGM was a Fashion Bred with 29 crosses of Ph. sire line stallions out of a possible 31 in his 5 generation pedigree.
EGM was Inbred 4 X 5 Mr. P. Polynesian branch Ph.---4 X 5 RAN, Polynesian branch Ph.---5 X 5 Secretariat, Nearco branch Ph.---5 X 5 Never Bend, Nearco branch Ph.
EGM was bred from a high risk fashion mating. EGM didnt break down, but had some minor problems nothing major. I always asked Craig Dollase EGM trainer how he was doing physically. Craig told me he was having some minor problems.
Six months later I asked Craig how EGM was doing, & he said EGM was at the farm for R & R. Craig wanted to know why I kept asking him about EGM condition.
I told Craig EGM was Inbred to the max, & I was researching all those Fashion Breds that were sustaining career ending Injuries. Craig was very interested in my research project, & told me that EGM had a prolific number of mental problems, that he now understands why EGM inherited these mental problems thru his prolific Inbreeding.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio