Pedigree Query

This one is extremely unusual. He had TB registered foals, but his sire Jedran, per the notes on PQ, was a registered Arabian who also had many Arabian foals. The PQ notes say that Jedran was used in remount breeding. Some of Courlander's get are still being registered TB--or were as late as 1989 and probably later.

How did Courlander, being 1/2 Arab, make it into the American Studbook?

I'd love to know more about this.

vineyridge wrote:This one is extremely unusual. He had TB registered foals, but his sire Jedran, per the notes on PQ, was a registered Arabian who also had many Arabian foals. The PQ notes say that Jedran was used in remount breeding. Some of Courlander's get are still being registered TB--or were as late as 1989 and probably later.

How did Courlander, being 1/2 Arab, make it into the American Studbook?

I'd love to know more about this.

The progeny/produce of registered Arabians and TBs was ASB eligible until 01 Nov 1943. Those registered prior to that time retained all rights so their offspring & descendants were and are fully registerable.

Pan Zareta wrote:

vineyridge wrote:This one is extremely unusual. He had TB registered foals, but his sire Jedran, per the notes on PQ, was a registered Arabian who also had many Arabian foals. The PQ notes say that Jedran was used in remount breeding. Some of Courlander's get are still being registered TB--or were as late as 1989 and probably later.

How did Courlander, being 1/2 Arab, make it into the American Studbook?

I'd love to know more about this.

The progeny/produce of registered Arabians and TBs was ASB eligible until 01 Nov 1943. Those registered prior to that time retained all rights so their offspring & descendants were and are fully registerable.

Were any of these Arab/TB crosses raced?

Back in Jedran's male line, there is the stallion Mesaoud. If memory serves correctly, Mesaoud was trained for the races in GB, and found to be lacking in speed compared to the TBs of the period.

Did any of these horses breed on?

Courland does trace back to Mesaoud. Who was known as the "spotted wonder". He was supposed to show minimal LP (appy) markings. There are a couple of contemporary full arab descendants that appear to have the striped hooves, and white eye that are markers for LP.

Bast wrote:Were any of these Arab/TB crosses raced?

Back in Jedran's male line, there is the stallion Mesaoud. If memory serves correctly, Mesaoud was trained for the races in GB, and found to be lacking in speed compared to the TBs of the period.

Yes, some of them were raced, but with no more success than Mesaoud.

xfactor fan wrote:Did any of these horses breed on?

Courland does trace back to Mesaoud. Who was known as the "spotted wonder". He was supposed to show minimal LP (appy) markings. There are a couple of contemporary full arab descendants that appear to have the striped hooves, and white eye that are markers for LP.

Yes some of them bred on. Occasionally one will turn up in a TB pedigree (usually a pedigree that reflects several generations of regional breeding). They also turn up in QH peds. The produce of Arab mares bred to TB stallions is in a section of its own in the ASB after vol. 10, I believe, and there's a separate index for dams under their sires for daus. of Arabs. It might be interesting to track the descendants of those known to have unusual markings & see what turns up.

Pan Zareta wrote:Yes some of them bred on. Occasionally one will turn up in a TB pedigree (usually a pedigree that reflects several generations of regional breeding). They also turn up in QH peds. The produce of Arab mares bred to TB stallions is in a section of its own in the ASB after vol. 10, I believe, and there's a separate index for dams under their sires for daus. of Arabs. It might be interesting to track the descendants of those known to have unusual markings & see what turns up.

Can this be researched with any online sources?

Bast wrote:Can this be researched with any online sources?

To track forward lines from interestingly marked Arabs that are still active in the TB you'd need a full list of that Arab's JC-registered progeny/produce. The ASB is the most reliable source for that information. In theory, a BRIS or Equineline progeny/produce report should show all foals with lines still active at the time the digital db was created, but the older the animal the less reliable those rcds. tend to be. For Arabs with no foals after ~1920 they're non-existent. Also, the BRIS & Equineline reports would almost certainly lack the interesting details that sometimes turn up in the ASB.

What prompted this post is a TB stallion who is still going who has Jedran/Courlander as the damsire line. He's from several generations of TB breeding for show jumping, hunters, and eventing.

vineyridge wrote:What prompted this post is a TB stallion who is still going who has Jedran/Courlander as the damsire line. He's from several generations of TB breeding for show jumping, hunters, and eventing.

Very interesting! Any modern Thoroughbred stallion or racer coming from this lineage?

http://chestofbooks.com/animals/horses/ ... ounds.html

I don't know what Mesaoud has to do with wounds but there is a color painting of him that shows his birdcatcher spots. White sclera occurs with many colors patterned or not. His feet are white so they don't count for striping. All he contributed in the way of color was his chrome be it sabino or DW.