Interesting factoid

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:59 pm

I've been reading Sire Lines. One of the sires described was High Time who was very tightly inbred to Domino and, according to Hewitt, was blazingly fast for 320 yards and then could either hang on or not--mostly not. But he ended up being a good sire.
http://www.pedigreequery.com/high+time

The interesting factoid is that both High Line and Phalaris, also known for speed http://www.pedigreequery.com/phalaris , have the same tail female line from Sunshine. Of course High Time could also have gotten his double C from Domino.

I find that intriguing, if one were to try and trace the C allele or MtDNA that enhances speed.

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:58 pm

So you think Sunshine might have been the unknown British mare that introduced the "C" gene into the TB?

Quick rule of thumb, if the stallion sires speed it is not in the mtDNA. If a mare throws speed in all her foals, it could be in the mtDNA.

High Time is a great case study. My private thought is that if Domino had lived longer, the breeders would not have tried the tight inbreeding. Also to my eye, High Time doesn't look much like Domino.

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:25 pm

Maybe not introduced, but a conduit. It's interesting that in tail female, the earliest horses in Sunshine seem to all be Turks and Barbs.

brogers · Postby **brogers** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:26 pm

Vineyridge,

Not to put a dampener on your research but I think you should be questioning the concept that a single variant (CC, CT, or TT) within a single gene controls the optimal distance that a horse wants to run. Our research says that is not the case.

Chilworth Icon is a recent example.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/chilworth+icon

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:53 pm

brogers wrote:Vineyridge,

Not to put a dampener on your research but I think you should be questioning the concept that a single variant (CC, CT, or TT) within a single gene controls the optimal distance that a horse wants to run. Our research says that is not the case.

Chilworth Icon is a recent example.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/chilworth+icon

Not saying that is so because some sprinters are able to stretch and some horses who look like stayers have some speed, but if 90% of QH exhibit the C/C allele, doesn't that means that it correlates pretty well with short speed?

Chilworth Icon is only a two year old; a tremendous number of stayers-- and I guess you'd say his sire, St Leger winner Sixties Icon is a stayer-- have been successful in sprints as two year olds. certainly his dosage numbers would indicate that Chilworth Icon should be at least a middle distance horse. One believes that even Secretariat and Seattle Slew won two year old sprints.

Chilworth Icon's immediate tail female family does not give great confidence that he should be a top class race horse.

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:56 pm

My guess based on the historical record is that Domino was C/T

High Time was blinding fast for a very short distance which argues that he was C/C he had some success on TB mares but also was a popular "short horse" sire.

And yes, looking at only one gene is foolish.

vineyridge · Postby **vineyridge** » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:58 am

Sunshine and her daughters were as closely intertwined with Springfield as Gallopade and her daughters were with Glencoe. There's no question that Springfield was a sprinter who could, on occasion, stretch to a longer distance. Phalaris has him twice in Bromus.

Springfield's daughter, Pastorella, was the dam of Colin.

His daughter Sierra is also supposed to have been a notable source of speed--i.e. Sundridge, who was a pure sprinter.