Pedigree Query

Take a look at this pedigree: http://www.pedigreequery.com/tizsong

The double dose of the name INCANTATION seems like some sort of a chancey appearance on this pedigree. But since the name of both immediate parents are of top-notch implications (Unbridled's Song/Tiznow)
seem to me like an analysis or correlation can be established.

And there is another question: Why Unbridled's Song and Tiznow are practically seldom seen together?

Opinions on this presence? (INCANTATION)

Incantation has a pedigree of soundness, with no prolific crosses of Ph. like Secretariat has. Breeders dont want to breed for stamina & soundness.

louis finochio,

Thank you very much for your precise and correct comments.
Browsing this heavily dosed stamina pedigree of INCANTATION,
especially her grandsires and their marathonic racing records,
makes one think of all the cases out there just like her that many breeders simply would not admit within a pedigree yet, what an impressive unsung presence uh?

what utter rubbish you talk again Louis...Secretariat does not have prolific crosses of Phalaris...just the one line.

with no prolific crosses of Ph. like Secretariat has????/it does mean NO doesn't it?

This is the family of Unbridled's Song, a horse that many suspect transmits unsoundness especially in get that are started before they are 3. Jorge, do yourself a favor, don't fall for the hype of the PH myth. There is no genetic/scientific evidence that supports this hypothesis.
Secretariat was sound and any thought that he transmits unsoundness is utter rubbish and has no proof or merit.
Too bad half the people have been banned that posted serious scientific articles are not here to discuss this.

Unbridled's Song does not transmit "unsoundness" he imparts talent into many of his offspring and the lure of the stud deal which is worth far more than anything the horse can accomplish on the track leads people to rush the male offspring to the track. It's those like Dunkirk, Buddha, etc who draw the attention, but there is no evidence that's been offered up such as the state of their knees when they did their first breezes to say "we are sure this horse is 100% ready to run. Just like broodmares don't read textbooks on when they should foal, not all horses knees close at the same time or are ready to hit the races at the same time as the others.

Unbridled's Song has very compatible percentages going to starters from foals of racing age and winners from racing age. His reputation for unsoundness is not deserved.

DDT

I wish I could find the site that lists stallions by their % of starters. US was one of the worst. It probably does have something to do with the "rush" to race them young.

DDT wrote:Unbridled's Song has very compatible percentages going to starters from foals of racing age and winners from racing age. His reputation for unsoundness is not deserved.

DDT

Mostly they don't run for long, though. I, personally, don't believe his rep is undeserved. I, personally, believe it's a bad line and I tend to run the other way from Unbridled's Song lines when selecting a mare OR a stallion.

madelyn

I personally do not like his line either, however with a 70% starters to racing age foals average he fits with a majority of the leading sires.


diomed

Just go to the Bloodhorse site and look up any stallion listed and it will give you access to a pdf summary for performance which lists among other things the percentages you are talking about.

DDT

madelyn

It certainly could be that once his runners get to the races they have more problems than the average runner, just because, on average, 7 out of 10 foals make it to the races does not mean that his foals are racing sound. His yearlings sell well and he continues to be in demand.

DDT

Unbridled Song throws Huge talented horses not the kind that should be run as 2 yo may be not even at 3 with the kind of prep traditional in America...May be(note the may be) if they could be prepared to race properly and waited upon...

Many of us do admire Unbridled's Song and would like to see his progeny
succeed. Unfortunately, he is no (Epsom Derby winner) Mahmoud in the sense of producing prolific horses with speed and durability, plus the period is unfortuntely, quite different.

Does it has something to do with their imposing weight on top of those legs?, I don't know for sure.

Does it has something to do with today's medication?, I don't know either.

Does it has something to do with the emphasis on precocious speed, regardless of giving them time for maturity?, ditto.

Does it has something to do the fact that their height is a new paradigm in itself "vis-a-vis" the mold created by the Northern Dancers?, ditto.

I cannot come with a "one-size-fits-all" reason, but I suspect that the above rationales have something to do with the perceived fame, which was reinforced with the dramatic terrible loss of Eight Belles, of all days, on Derby Day.

Alas that the development of today's Thoroughbred racing is moving on a dissimilar direction of, not only Unbridled's Song, but every other lineage with his characteristics.

But many of us admire this great specimen and would earnestly like him to succeed.