Interview with Maggi Moss

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horsenuts
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Postby horsenuts » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:04 pm

bdw0617 wrote:
Go ask Mott, Dutrow, Frankel etc. what they think of TP..... I believe you'll find most if not all speak VERY highly of what he has done. Pletcher didn't have anything given to him. He has to prove himself everytime he runs a horse just as all trainers do or else they will find themselves out of stock in short order.


I'm sure they would! First out of professional obligation, but moreso because HE IS A VERY GOOD TRAINER.. again, I keep saying i never said he was a BAD trainer. stop putting words in my mouth.

I'm saying he isn't the BEST, you keep telling me I'm saying he's the worst



And just who is "the best"?

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Postby Rokeby Forever » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:17 pm

Allen Jerkens. While trainers scramble to perform to keep owners, Jerkens has had Jack Dreyfuss (Hobeau Farm) for 45 years (since 1962). That's the longest owner/trainer affiliation in racing today. Maybe ever?
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU

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Postby bdw0617 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:24 pm

my list of best trainers in the country:

1)
Jerry Hollendorfer.
not one and I mean NO ONE can spot a horse better. You will never make a red cent of profit trying to claim a horse off of him. He has raced 150 times less than T pletch but is only 15 back in him in the win column and does it with 5k claimers if that. But when he gets a runner..Whatabull, Histerial lady.. he knows what to do with them. Oh.. and he has about 5k wins to his name.


2) Kiaran P. McLaughlin- He has proven he can win on any level. he can baby a horse, he can get one running early. if his horses loose, you know it's not Kiaran's fault the horse just wasn't good enough. On the same mark, when he runs a horse in a high level race, you hvae to pay attention.. unlike Pletcher, who goes black in anything big mor times tha not... that is when Kiaran is at his best.

3) allen Jerkins- The top 4 for me are interchangeable. He's allen freakin jerkins. He's the giant killer. I don't need to say much else. not many people know more about horses

4) Bobby Frankel- again, a carbon copy of McLaughlin.. will get the most out of his horse. a horseman if there ever was one. He can be a little on the pricky side but he knows his horses. has a 10% higher ITM clip than your beloved pletcher

5) Carl A. Nafzger- If he wanted to, he could be right up there with anyone , but he's ready to give it up, if not for Street Sense he would probably already be retired. Look at how masterfully he had SS ready for the derby. when HE gets a horse ready to run.. watch out. He made mincemeat of this (actually pretty good) derby field.

6)
Ronald L. McAnally
- He's getting old (very) too.. but he trained John Henry. he can still train. I don't think he likes keeping as big a stable.. but he has trained 3 of the top 100 horses of the last century (per bloodhorse, not me).. 4 if you count Candy Ride (which I don't but a damn good horse).

7)
Richard E. Mandella
the tin man, phone trick, pleasantly perfect, half bridled.. and a slew of others I don't even want to remember, just doesn't have the guns this particular year and even in an off year he can pull out a horse like the tin man. If you give this man a horse, he can make it run. that has never been a question.

I would still probably put a couple more trainers in there before him (pletcher).. but I could see pletch in the top 10. top 10 out of thousands is not a bad feat at ALL.. Assumssen, Scott Lake (who has races 1200 times..600-800 more than anyone else to get 40 more victors wouldn't sniff my list)


alot of people will take heed to JH being first on my list.. but I riase this question to you.. what trainer has had more of an impact on betting then Jerry?

I play the Nothern and Sothern Cali ciruit on a daily basis. the man has made making money at Bay meadows and golden gate damn near impossible. you can't do it. you can't make money betting against him because he can drop a horse and win by 10. he can raise a horse and win by 10. adn either way the horse is 3/5. .. at best

no trainer has ever had THAT type of impact on a racing circuit. I mean in so Cal even florida, pletch horses get bet, but I can throw a mule out in an allowence n3x race and he wuld go off at even money if jerry trained him... and probably win
Last edited by bdw0617 on Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

horsenuts
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Postby horsenuts » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:35 pm

bdw0617 wrote:my list of best trainers in the country:

1)
Jerry Hollendorfer.
not one and I mean NO ONE can spot a horse better. You will never make a red cent of profit trying to claim a horse off of him. He has raced 150 times less than T pletch but is only 15 back in him in the win column and does it with 5k claimers if that. But when he gets a runner..Whatabull, Histerial lady.. he knows what to do with them. Oh.. and he has about 5k wins to his name.


2) Kiaran P. McLaughlin- He has proven he can win on any level. he can baby a horse, he can get one running early. if his horses loose, you know it's not Kiaran's fault the horse just wasn't good enough. On the same mark, when he runs a horse in a high level race, you hvae to pay attention.. unlike Pletcher, who goes black in anything big mor times tha not... that is when Kiaran is at his best.

3) allen Jerkins- The top 4 for me are interchangeable. He's allen freakin jerkins. He's the giant killer. I don't need to say much else. not many people know more about horses

4) Bobby Frankel- again, a carbon copy of McLaughlin.. will get the most out of his horse. a horseman if there ever was one. He can be a little on the pricky side but he knows his horses. has a 10% higher ITM clip than your beloved pletcher

5) Carl A. Nafzger- If he wanted to, he could be right up there with anyone , but he's ready to give it up, if not for Street Sense he would probably already be retired. Look at how masterfully he had SS ready for the derby. when HE gets a horse ready to run.. watch out. He made mincemeat of this (actually pretty good) derby field.

6)
Ronald L. McAnally
- He's getting old (very) too.. but he trained John Henry. he can still train. I don't think he likes keeping as big a stable.. but he has trained 3 of the top 100 horses of the last century (per bloodhorse, not me).. 4 if you count Candy Ride (which I don't but a damn good horse).

7)
Richard E. Mandella
the tin man, phone trick, pleasantly perfect, half bridled.. and a slew of others I don't even want to remember, just doesn't have the guns this particular year and even in an off year he can pull out a horse like the tin man. If you give this man a horse, he can make it run. that has never been a question.

I would still probably put a couple more trainers in there before him (pletcher).. but I could see pletch in the top 10. top 10 out of thousands is not a bad feat at ALL.. Assumssen, Scott Lake (who has races 1200 times..600-800 more than anyone else to get 40 more victors wouldn't sniff my list)


You think highly of McLaughlin... so go ask him what he thinks of Pletcher. Trainers that are honest in their assessment believe what he's doing is incredible and that includes several HoF trainers and others who will be someday. And it's not just "professional courtesy" or the like in their praise of TP. Everyone who trains wants to be at the top at some time in their career and if they don't then they don't have the competitive juices worthy of competiting in such a competitive game.

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Postby Rokeby Forever » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:37 pm

bdw0617 wrote:Scott Lake (who has races 1200 times..600-800 more than anyone else to get 40 more victors wouldn't sniff my list)


BDW, di you pull that last statement out of your ass? Final standings from last year:

Scott A. Lake 2158 starts, 528 wins, 383 place, 306, third
24% win 56% in the money

Todd A. Pletcher 1168starts, 294 wins, 238 place, 140, third
25% win 57% in the money

Same percentages, except Scott Lake did it with sore legged, talentless, bottom rung horses to do it....and he got twice as many starts out of his stock.
Last edited by Rokeby Forever on Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
What synthetics are to California racing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU

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Postby bdw0617 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:38 pm

okay. again. I never said he didn't hink highly of him.

If I call you a top 15 trainer in the country, is that a slant? That's thinking pretty highly of someone. I don't think Zito, Baffert or SA are in the top 15.. Pletcher is cleary in the top 10. how is that a slant?


but I seriously doubt that he would say "oh.. he's the best hands down'

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Postby bdw0617 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:39 pm

Rokeby Forever wrote:
bdw0617 wrote:Scott Lake (who has races 1200 times..600-800 more than anyone else to get 40 more victors wouldn't sniff my list)


BDW, di you pull that last statement out of your ass? Final standings from last year:



Scott A. Lake 2158 528 383 306 24% win 56% in the money
Todd A. Pletcher 1168 294 238 140 25% win 57% in the
money

Same percentages, except Scott Lake had to run sore legged bottom rung horses to achieve it....and twice as many horses, at that!


yeah you are right... I'm sleepy and wasn't paying much attentoin when I read and posted that. He'd make my top ten. I wouldn't put him ahead of any of the others but he wuld be ahead of pletch by 1, if not co 8th

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Postby Rokeby Forever » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:43 pm

OK. LOL!

I'm not fan of Scott Lake - the guy runs a butchershop. But, if people are going to throw Pletcher's percentages around with high priced stock, it's only fair to do the same with Lake and his stock.
What synthetics are to California racing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU

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Postby horsenuts » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:45 pm

Rokeby Forever wrote:
bdw0617 wrote:Scott Lake (who has races 1200 times..600-800 more than anyone else to get 40 more victors wouldn't sniff my list)


BDW, di you pull that last statement out of your ass? Final standings from last year:

Scott A. Lake 2158 starts, 528 wins, 383 place, 306, third
24% win 56% in the money

Todd A. Pletcher 1168starts, 294 wins, 238 place, 140, third
25% win 57% in the money

Same percentages, except Scott Lake did it with sore legged, talentless, bottom rung horses to do it....and he got twice as many starts out of his stock.



Winning at a high percentile is to be expected by any good trainer IF they run their horses where they can win. Lake is nearly always competitive because he runs them where they can win. Wayne Catalano wins at around a 40% clip in Chicago because Calabrese allows him to run them where they can win. Many regional areas will have 30%+ trainers because they run 'em where they can win. It's not rocket science... just keep yourself in good company and your horses in bad.

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Postby Rokeby Forever » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:49 pm

horsenuts wrote:Winning at over a 25% clip for the past 3-4 years is a remarkable achievement.


Yeah...so let's give Scott Lake the same credit we give Pletcher. And Lake can do it at twice the rate.
What synthetics are to California racing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU

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Postby bdw0617 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:49 pm

WC runs horses below where they can win at. he takes it to the extreme big time.

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Postby bdw0617 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:50 pm

Rokeby Forever wrote:
horsenuts wrote:Winning at over a 25% clip for the past 3-4 years is a remarkable achievement.


Yeah...so let's give Scott Lake the same credit we give Pletcher. And Lake can do it at twice the rate.


you do have a point there.. on that I'm going to bump him 1 spot above pletch just off the fact that he runs 2 times as many workpatch horses and has the same percentage

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Postby bdw0617 » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:51 pm

horsenuts wrote:
Rokeby Forever wrote:
bdw0617 wrote:Scott Lake (who has races 1200 times..600-800 more than anyone else to get 40 more victors wouldn't sniff my list)


BDW, di you pull that last statement out of your ass? Final standings from last year:

Scott A. Lake 2158 starts, 528 wins, 383 place, 306, third
24% win 56% in the money

Todd A. Pletcher 1168starts, 294 wins, 238 place, 140, third
25% win 57% in the money

Same percentages, except Scott Lake did it with sore legged, talentless, bottom rung horses to do it....and he got twice as many starts out of his stock.



Winning at a high percentile is to be expected by any good trainer IF they run their horses where they can win. Lake is nearly always competitive because he runs them where they can win. Wayne Catalano wins at around a 40% clip in Chicago because Calabrese allows him to run them where they can win. Many regional areas will have 30%+ trainers because they run 'em where they can win. It's not rocket science... just keep yourself in good company and your horses in bad.


I wish you could tell some of these trainers out in SoCal that. I swear to god if I see Wilko in another Grade 1 race I'm going to throw something at my PC

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Postby horsenuts » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:01 pm

Rokeby Forever wrote:
horsenuts wrote:Winning at over a 25% clip for the past 3-4 years is a remarkable achievement.


Yeah...so let's give Scott Lake the same credit we give Pletcher. And Lake can do it at twice the rate.



Lake's okay.... though he struggles in NY moreso then at other tracks.He needs to upgrade his stock if he's going to take it to the next level. The Dutrow boys have worked to upgrade their stables whereas their Father ran an SL type operation throughout his career. Nothing wrong with that but the notoriety is at the highest level of racing not in the cheap claiming ranks.

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Postby Rokeby Forever » Sat Jul 14, 2007 11:01 pm

Wilko, at this point, sort of reminds me of Funny Cide. He's too tiny to make a stallion out of, so why don't they just pick out some powderpuff races for him and have some fun with him?
What synthetics are to California racing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU