Artificial insemination: How prevalent is it?

[KAL]

CS, I agree with your thoughts, in principle. We never sent a mare to Coolmore, although I had couple who matched up well and the fees were in our range... we opted for other choices. However, which farms are not guilty of excessive books? You list 3... yet there isn't much appeal to many of the stallions at 2 of those farms (some would say all three), especially if you have a mare who doesn't "fit" well with the couple of attractive stallions found there.

Anyway, the market has dictated its preferences... and the stallion industry has capitalized. If the market demanded smaller books... I am sure there would be a response... but would it be real? The commercial industry has no qualms about being misleading, fudging numbers, stretching the truth, and, in some cases blatantly being misleading. Heck, they do it now with book size, "... well his book is full... but I might be able to find a season...".

Also... too many breeders are not actually the ones making these decisions. Most bloodstock agents are more like snake-oil salesmen and they will advise in a manner easiest, safest, and most lucrative to them.

Did you ever play with a kid who owned the bat, ball, bases, and the field was in his yard? If he made a rule, no matter how dumb, you had one choice... go along with it or go home. Well... welcome to the same game. There is absolutely nothing "free market" about this industry.

[Rokeby Forever]

There's validity to that, SAM....but I have a hard time picturing the lush, rolling pastures of Fernley, Nevada. LMAO!

[Sam]

Actually, Sam, Im thinking the opposite should happen, to preserve regional stallions. Say if you want a Cal bred, and all the benefits that go with it, you could breed AI to a KY stallion and foal in CA, but in order to have that foal eligible for Cal-bred registration, you would have to breed your mare the following year to a stallion standing in California. That would protect the stallion owners in each state. Might even give incentive to bring in better stallions.

I believe that's how the CA rule is currently written... doesn't seem to be doing much to improve the stock in CA. It's also reaching a point where it's just too damned expensive to breed in CA on a large scale unless you have tens of thousands to throw into it.

[Sam]

There's validity to that, SAM....but I have a hard time picturing the lush, rolling pastures of Fernley, Nevada. LMAO!

There's a reason so much of this state is a military no fly zone... it should stay that way.

"Come on boys, we're going out to the desert and blow some shit up!!"

[halo]

I think theres another state....NJ maybe?.....where their breeder awards are based on where the sire of the foal stands. The foals have to be foaled in NJ, but if they are by a NJ sire, the percentage of breeder award is higher than if its by a non New Jersey sire. Simple rules like that would keep the stallions in business. And I know a whole lot of people who would want nothing to do with shipped semen; they just want to load up Old Bessie and hike down the road to Big Ben, git er bred, and come home. I really think not as many people would utilize shipped semen as people seem to think.

[Sam]

And I know a whole lot of people who would want nothing to do with shipped semen; they just want to load up Old Bessie and hike down the road to Big Ben, git er bred, and come home. I really think not as many people would utilize shipped semen as people seem to think.

*noddin'*

Which goes back to my "if the quality is there" (or at least perceived to be there) then it won't matter where the stallion stands or if the stallion owner uses AI.

AI doesn't seem to have adversely affected Standardbreds or warmbloods, I really don't see why people think it would Thoroughbreds. Even QHs are not nearly as inbred as some would have you believe. The RACING stock might be, but the breed as a whole isn't. At least not any more than Thoroughbreds are.

[Sam]

Do you honestly believe stallions like Al's Wizard and Snow Blink are worth keeping in the breeding ranks, because those are the kind of stallions AI would drive out. I don't have a problem with that.

You know... maybe I'm being a little too harsh on Snow Blink. He was a tough bugger. 97 starts. 20-16-16 for $205,321 in earnings. Stakes horse (granted, most of them cheap CA restricted stakes and a 3rd in a G3) age 3-6. Ran until he was 10yo. Not counting the 2yos, 7 foals, 4 starters, 2 winners. If I actually thought he'd make it as a stallion, wish there were more with that kind of durability out there to breed to.

[xfactor fan]

The good thing about 200 foals a year, and the only thing that I can see, is that it accelerated the time to figure out if the stallion should be kept a stallion. 200 foals, lots of good foals, and winners--this one is a keeper. 200 foals, all duds, perhaps he needs a new job.

[griff]

casallic

I don't believe most male posters would agree with you that AI is more humane than natural cover.

griff

[halo]

Griff, I know you're just trying to be smart, but when you've seen a stallion breed so many mares that he flat refuses to jump a mare because he's so sore, and needs his back and stifles injected just to breed mares, you'll agree that it is more humane.

[madelyn]

And I know a whole lot of people who would want nothing to do with shipped semen; they just want to load up Old Bessie and hike down the road to Big Ben, git er bred, and come home. I really think not as many people would utilize shipped semen as people seem to think.

*noddin'*

Which goes back to my "if the quality is there" (or at least perceived to be there) then it won't matter where the stallion stands or if the stallion owner uses AI.

AI doesn't seem to have adversely affected Standardbreds or warmbloods...

Using warmbloods as an "example" is problematic since most warmblood stallions are ONLY available using AI, live cover is NOT an option. I don't know if that is also true regarding Standardbreds.

[griff]

I've never figured out how you"make" a stallion mount a mare.. I'm certainly not the worlds expert on this but every time I've seen a stallion mount a mare he was eager to do so.

Anyway, I'd never think that inticing a stallion to mount a artificial mare and them preforming human mastebation would be considered more humane than a natural cover. I guess it's all in the "eye" of the beholder.

griff.

[Sam]

And I know a whole lot of people who would want nothing to do with shipped semen; they just want to load up Old Bessie and hike down the road to Big Ben, git er bred, and come home. I really think not as many people would utilize shipped semen as people seem to think.

*noddin'*

Which goes back to my "if the quality is there" (or at least perceived to be there) then it won't matter where the stallion stands or if the stallion owner uses AI.

AI doesn't seem to have adversely affected Standardbreds or warmbloods...

Using warmbloods as an "example" is problematic since most warmblood stallions are ONLY available using AI, live cover is NOT an option. I don't know if that is also true regarding Standardbreds.

The point was people arguing against AI say it will narrow the gene pool. That is not the case in breeds that use it. QHs, Standardbreds, Arabs, etc are no more inbred now than they were before the use of AI. If a breed is inbred, it's because that is the practice accepted by that breed. Look at Welsh ponies. Those have ALWAYS been closely inbred because there are so few of them. Arabs do close inbreeding as a matter of practice, as do some branches of QH breeders (I see more inbreeding in reining/cutting horses than I do racers or h/j types). Have you seen how many TWH's have multiple lines to Midnight Sun, especially through Rodger's Perfection? AI didn't do that, it was already being done. A breed shaping stallion will ALWAYS dominate the far back generations -- whether the breed uses AI or not. Look at Louis' favourite drum to beat, Phalaris.

And again, most of us have no problem telling someone when we think their mare shouldn't be bred, why are you (collective) fighting so hard to keep trash stallions like Al's Wizard in the breeding ranks?

[casallc]

I've never figured out how you"make" a stallion mount a mare.. I'm certainly not the worlds expert on this but every time I've seen a stallion mount a mare he was eager to do so.

Anyway, I'd never think that inticing a stallion to mount a artificial mare and them preforming human mastebation would be considered more humane than a natural cover. I guess it's all in the "eye" of the beholder.

griff.

Let me assure you, there are a ton of horses that couldn't care less about breeding a mare, they are agravating to no end.
A horse with a good libido will mount anything that will stand still.

[casallc]

And I know a whole lot of people who would want nothing to do with shipped semen; they just want to load up Old Bessie and hike down the road to Big Ben, git er bred, and come home. I really think not as many people would utilize shipped semen as people seem to think.

*noddin'*

Which goes back to my "if the quality is there" (or at least perceived to be there) then it won't matter where the stallion stands or if the stallion owner uses AI.

AI doesn't seem to have adversely affected Standardbreds or warmbloods...

Using warmbloods as an "example" is problematic since most warmblood stallions are ONLY available using AI, live cover is NOT an option. I don't know if that is also true regarding Standardbreds.

The point was people arguing against AI say it will narrow the gene pool. That is not the case in breeds that use it. QHs, Standardbreds, Arabs, etc are no more inbred now than they were before the use of AI. If a breed is inbred, it's because that is the practice accepted by that breed. Look at Welsh ponies. Those have ALWAYS been closely inbred because there are so few of them. Arabs do close inbreeding as a matter of practice, as do some branches of QH breeders (I see more inbreeding in reining/cutting horses than I do racers or h/j types). Have you seen how many TWH's have multiple lines to Midnight Sun, especially through Rodger's Perfection? AI didn't do that, it was already being done. A breed shaping stallion will ALWAYS dominate the far back generations -- whether the breed uses AI or not. Look at Louis' favourite drum to beat, Phalaris.

And again, most of us have no problem telling someone when we think their mare shouldn't be bred, why are you (collective) fighting so hard to keep trash stallions like Al's Wizard in the breeding ranks?

Actually Quarterhorses are less inbred now from the vast influence of TB genes. Also QH's are getting faster through hybrid vigor while TB's are not. The foundation Quarter mares were intensly line bred then crossed on TB sires to create the quarter racing foundation sires.