Pleasant Tap

[KentuckyCat]

Could someone please enlighten me as to why Pleasant Tap's sales averages are so weak? To me he seems like one of the best values out there-- especially at his 2007 fee of 15K. He is being raised to 25K in 2008, which still seems like a good value for breed to race... but that's nearly 10K higher than his covering sire median prices which makes for a horrible value for breed to sale.

In 2007 he was the sire of more G1 (3) winners than AP Indy, Giants Causeway, Pulpit, Unbridled's Song, Storm Cat, etc... including millionaires Tiago (arguably the best horse on the West Coast as a 3 year old) and Premium Tap (arguably one of the best older horses in the world).

His 8 stakes winners (five of which were graded) in '07 from 119 runners is very respectable and his 8.5 percent stakes winners from foals lifetime is outstanding... not to mention he improves his mares considerably! (A-E Index of 1.96/ Comp Index of 1.67)

In my mind it just doesn't add up that there isn't a larger demand for his progeny at the sales. Can anyone help me out here?

[madelyn]

His babies tend to be on the homely side. Like Street Cry. The sales have become beauty pageants, complete with steroids, corrective surgeries, and the equivalent of falsies. The fact that the offspring can run doesn't seem to faze anyone, they still won't pay what it costs to raise one. And all the steroided, surgically corrected, over plumped, over grown yearlings, which may never win one race, seem to be the sale toppers.

[Denise]

Ditto to all of Madelyn's sentiments, and will add that the "business" of breeding to breed is what fuels the beauty pageants, er, sales.
Breeding to race? That's what us "small timers" do these days, with our winning blue collar mares and winning regional stallions. PT descends from one of the best and most classy sirelines (Ribot) that's fast disappearing from the American turf and wildly unfashionable at the sales, because of the late bloomer, router knock. Can you imagine? The one thing you want come spring classic time is the one thing no one's actually buying.
It's interesting that artificial surfaces seem to be forcing people to reconsider these kinds of pedigree influences. Alas, though, a precocious two year old speedball still better serves the "fast food, ATM, instant gratification" mindset that's so prevalent.
I'd love to have a Pleasant Tap from one of our mares.

[Tesio]

I'm with Madelyn and Denise, though, not in the Biblical sense! They are spot-on in their opinions with regard to Pleasant Tap.

He is a tremendous stallion whose babies are not gonna catch anyone's eye at the sales. He was also a tremendous racehorse. Durable enough to run solidly for 4 years and versatile enough to place in both the BC Classic and BC sprint over his career. I'm old enough to remember both races well!

It seems to me Lane's End decided if you want to breed to this classy horse you will have to pay. They're probably ignoring the sales and simply demanding breeders respect him. At his age he won't be covering a big book anyway.

[KentuckyCat]

Thanks for your input everyone. It's unfortunate that the industry is the way it is, but on the bright side (I guess) it makes for some good deals if your looking to purchase a Pleasant Tap yearling to race.

[bdw0617]

i'll play the othe side of the coin.


if I am at a sale, and anyone who knows me knows I"m the biggest pleasant tap fan on earth, but if his babies look..well..homely, why would someone pay 6 figures for someting. talk about a stab in the dark.

I think it comes down to alot of trainers or people for that matter dont' know what "a good pleasant tap" looks like

[madelyn]

but I don't think you go to the sales, or buy horses, do you bdw0617?

[KAL]

bdw, I'll go one better... a lot of people buying at the sales don't know what a good racehorse looks like.

You can combine your post with that of Madelyn and Denise (concerning the ills of the sales critters) and have a good picture of why the PT's don't sell.

Also... anyone have the sales results for Slew City Slew? How about Cozzene, (although he does get some decent sales critters from time to time)? What about Alphabet Soup?

There are several stallions in this catagory, but Pleasant Tap does seem to be the poster boy.

[bdw0617]

but I don't think you go to the sales, or buy horses, do you bdw0617?

talk about me. what in the hell did I do to you to deserve this?

I hadn't said one thing to you, I just was playing devils advocate, trying to spark some type of conversation that someone (myself) can learn from. that question being, we can sit here all day long and talk about pleasant taps and the like are underprised and it's 'what's wrong' with the industry, but in relality, what DO you do when you are starring down the barrerl of a decent bred pleasant tap that looks homely?


I was banned for much less.

and to answer your sarcastic ass question, I'm soaking in all I can and I'm jumping in early next year.. I have too much going on right now (grandmoter ill, moving to CA) but around the barretts may sale I'm thinking I will be situtated enough and have a decent enough as I can possibly expect grounding to have an inkling on what i'm doing


there.

[cewright]

Check out the results of the Aug Texas yearling sale to see what happens whe a nice Pleasant Tap colt is offered.
http://fasigtipton.com/catalogs/2007/0827/254.pdf

254 PLEASANT TAP/TENSIE'S PRO 330,000
C LEGACY BLOODSTOCK AGENT CXII ROBERT J & MARY HARRIS, AGENT

He was stunning!

Chuck

[bdw0617]

bdw, I'll go one better... a lot of people buying at the sales don't know what a good racehorse looks like.

You can combine your post with that of Madelyn and Denise (concerning the ills of the sales critters) and have a good picture of why the PT's don't sell.

Also... anyone have the sales results for Slew City Slew? How about Cozzene, (although he does get some decent sales critters from time to time)? What about Alphabet Soup?

There are several stallions in this catagory, but Pleasant Tap does seem to be the poster boy.

pleasant tap seems to be the poster boy because he is the edge of both realms. He has a stupid cheap stud fee, and produces Brilliant world class horses.

How can a horse produce an 8 million dollar winner and stand for 20k? that defies logic.


I have a couple of theories to expand on that KAL.

FIRST Of ALL.. I don't think it's a "think" to it. I will go on the realm and say 80% of all people at sales have no idea what they are looking at horse racing wise. which is why it has become a beatuy pagent. on the flip,t here are trainers that if they put a bid in I'd watch closely... D Wayne was one of the best in te business at yearling sales. he could and still spot a runner.

look at the clippings form sales, they tell the tale. "he was so big", "he moves so good"

It's alot like college baskeball recruiter. I'll even go so far as to use myself as an example. I played high school basketball.. was very good as well. My last year I avg'd 15 points a game, about 4 assists and shot 86% from the free throw line. I had a team mate who avg'd about 12 points a game and ended up going to a high level college here in the states.

I, while technically a good player, was not a college prospect, at least a h igh level one. I'm only 5'8, in high school I was 140 dripping wet. while quick I wasn't the quickest player ont he floor. whereas my teammate was 6'4, and did everyting so effortlessly, he PROJECTED BETTER than I did. He just graduated and was a starting shooting guard at a division one college.

getting back to point. id on't think alot of people can do THAT.. the ones who can have it made year in and yea rout, they have a distant advantage.

alot of people look at the 2YOIT sales and see the fast times and have no idea in reality what they mean. okay he can sprint a furlong in 10 seconds. what does that mean? The best can tell you what that means.

I think we still sell our yearlings for the most part off black type. the more type the more money. alot of people can't look at a 1 year old horse (think about that for a second) that is still growing and project to know what he is going to be.

[Rokeby Forever]

D Wayne was one of the best in te business at yearling sales. he could and still spot a runner.

Oh c'mon...in his heyday, he had an army of spotters like Clyde Rice doing his homework for him. And....Lukas was the direct underbidder on Seattle Dancer and he got stuck like a fly to flypaper with $2.9 Million Houston.

KAL's thoughts are right on the money.

[bdw0617]

D Wayne was one of the best in te business at yearling sales. he could and still spot a runner.

Oh c'mon...in his heyday, he had an army of spotters like Clyde Rice doing his homework for him. And....Lukas was the direct underbidder on Seattle Dancer and he got stuck like a fly to flypaper with $2.9 Million Houston.

KAL's thoughts are right on the money.

point being, someone in his camp could sure spot a horse. even if it wasn't him. i dont' want the point to be lost in the forest.

I wonder what goes though John Fergusons m ind when he is advising Sheikh Mo on all the million dollar babies.

[bdw0617]

D Wayne was one of the best in te business at yearling sales. he could and still spot a runner.

Oh c'mon...in his heyday, he had an army of spotters like Clyde Rice doing his homework for him. And....Lukas was the direct underbidder on Seattle Dancer and he got stuck like a fly to flypaper with $2.9 Million Houston.

KAL's thoughts are right on the money.

point being, someone in his camp could sure spot a horse. even if it wasn't him. i dont' want the point to be lost in the forest.

I wonder what goes though John Fergusons m ind when he is advising Sheikh Mo on all the million dollar babies.

[Rokeby Forever]

Pleasant Tap also isn't a bad broodmare sire, especially with what he's had to work with.

The lifetime CI of Pleasant Tap's books is 1.67. He hasn't had awful books throughout his career, but his fillies don't descend from many top families, if any. Take a look, for example, at Pleasant Hill, winner of the Gardenia Stakes (G III) this year. There's not a whole lot there on the female tail, is there?