The Triple Crowning Achievement

[larrygene]

Tuc, goodness EB broke down galloping out not at the top of the stretch!!! She was almost a 1/4 past the finishline. Talk about bringing one down , how much further did she need to go??

[Mali]

I'm sorry but tell me why it is not good enough. I welcome any examples

I'm not answering for her, but I would think anyone would be hard pressed to tell someone why this crop is anything but weak. Take BB out of the picture and a filly who had never won a G1 and never raced against the males had 18 of them beat at the wire.

Would you consider EB a great filly? Did you consider her a dominating filly BEFORE the Derby? I don't think many did. That says a lot about the overall quality.

[larrygene]

I went through 8 years of Ivy League hell to do what I've done since I was old enough to walk. I'm definitely certifiable.

Does that mean you are real smart or real dumb???

[Mali]

Depends who you ask. But if you're asking me... dumb! Although it did prove something about my character to my family, which I can never put a price on.

[larrygene]

And what may I ask have you been doing since you could walk??

[Mali]

Working on my family's farms. I would sleep in the stables and they would send someone to get me and carry me to bed. Till this day, I feel the most comfortable surrounded by horses than I do in crowds of people.

[Tucumcari]

I am familiar with where she broke down, I never said she was suffered a serious injury at the head of the lane and the initial fracture of the condyle continued to progress till the leg disintegrated beneath her... I said she did not have an entirely clean trip.

Coal, IF there was one horse in any of these races that gave you a moments hesitation as to who the winner would be, and then ran to even remotely close to expectations I might say hey maybe he is just that good. And the only one who ran as well as she was advertised was the filly.
As to why I don't think he is at par is because there have been some very good horses NOT to get it done. Good horses on the track and influential in the shed.
Set a record, run against older, do something that's impressive. Winning this particular TC is not worthy of the elite. Affirmed, Seattle Slew, Secretariat, War Admiral, not to mention Alydar, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer, What Barbaro could have been( and those ho know me know I had issues with Barbaro as although more so after the injury... he was brilliant and able to dominate the bunch he ran against... though to me he was an exciting horse!). Do Big Brown and Barbaro compare to you? They sure don't to me!
To add to the reasons to dislike was the latest work. Sure he looked to hit on all fours, and if you weren't as anal as I am you might like the work. BUT the way he did it causes me to believe that he might not be doing as well as we would like to believe him to be. He broke off sharply, looked to be going easily and then actually was asked by the girl as he slowed in the last quarter.

[Tucumcari]

Working on my family's farms. I would sleep in the stables and they would send someone to get me and carry me to bed. Till this day, I feel the most comfortable surrounded by horses than I do in crowds of people.

Oh you and me both!!! Welcome to the world of the horse lovin freak show!!! Glad I'm not alone on my freakiness-isms...

[Coaltown]

There is a lot to address here so I am not going to do it in any particular order. Anyone who watched EB they would know that every race she won was by an impressive margin and definitely a dominating filly feel free to post her margins of victory. BB beat the Wood winner the SA derby winner, the Bluegrass winner and the Lane's End (formerly the Jim Beam winner). Mali makes a great point take out BB and EB and what was really in that Derby. Then again take out Big Red and Sham and what was in the 73 Derby. Take out Citation and Coaltown and what was in the 48 Derby. Why don't BB and Barbaro compare to you I don't understand? Too many of you are letting your personal feelings toward his connections get in the way of being able to enjoy such a special horse. BB average margin of victory is better than Barbaros

[Tucumcari]

That's the thing I don't really have issues with his connections. My Signature says "go one wish it Kip..." Which Kip with the exact same connections might that be??

That might be an indicator that I might really not loathe the connections as some might think.
I don't love that their cumulative "issues" have been brought to the for front at the same time. I can't help but feel that the horse isn't my favorite, that I don't think he matches up historically. I hate that the Derby was marred. I hate that no matter how historic this may be it won't help what the recent deaths have meant for the racing industry. I dislike the freaking steroid thing being the reason for him being a good horse, and I joke, but there is a grain of truth to the Dutrow "juice." I don't like that people forget good three year olds didn't make it to the TC for various reasons and this group is not the be all end all... etc. etc. etc

[Coaltown]

Tuc, if he is lucky enough to win tomorrow there is nothing that you can do, he will be forever remembered as one of the greatest 3YOs of all time because only 11 have ever done it. If the drug thing is really that big of an issue for you it has been a long time since you were able to pull for a TC winner. Because Silver Charm, Real Quiet and War Emblem were all trained by someone with plenty of medication violations.

[Mali]

There is a lot to address here so I am not going to do it in any particular order. Anyone who watched EB they would know that every race she won was by an impressive margin and definitely a dominating filly feel free to post her margins of victory. BB beat the Wood winner the SA derby winner, the Bluegrass winner and the Lane's End (formerly the Jim Beam winner). Mali makes a great point take out BB and EB and what was really in that Derby. Then again take out Big Red and Sham and what was in the 73 Derby. Take out Citation and Coaltown and what was in the 48 Derby. Why don't BB and Barbaro compare to you I don't understand? Too many of you are letting your personal feelings toward his connections get in the way of being able to enjoy such a special horse. BB average margin of victory is better than Barbaros

Where EB is concerned, she had all she could handle in the Fantasy, passing a tired Alina. That certainly wasn't a race to scream about.

I'm not saying she wasn't a very good filly. But I don't think anyone would have called her dominating or great coming into the Derby. She beat up on G2 and G3 fillies in the midwest.

Without question though, she ran a remarkable and surprising (to me) race in the Derby. But I still stand by the fact that any other year, she wouldn't have even been pointed to the Derby but the numbers were so weak in the field, her connects thought she had a legitimate shot.

Again, we're talking about a G2 winning filly who only won her last against fillies by 3/4 a length.

I think we've all debated enough. Hopefully tomorrow something happens, one way or another, that ends the need to debate.

[Coaltown]

Mali, you are talking about one race in which she had a bad trip. You know her winning margin in that race so you must know her winnig margin in the others why don't you post those?

[Mali]

I don't know what they were but I did just watch the replay of the Fantasy. She did stumble at the start a little but otherwise she had a perfect stalking trip behind the speed.

It wasn't an ideal start, but it was far from a bad trip.

And regardless of her winning margins, she was a G2 winner against her own sex who the connections never put in a G1 race.

I don't think she ever beat a horse who has since won a G1 or G2 race either, as far as I can see. Don't quote me but no one is jumping out at me.

Regardless, for her to soundly beat the rest of the field speaks volumes about their class, all the while I will gladly applaud a gutsy filly who left it all on the track.

We both know 9 out of 10 years, they wouldn't have even given the Derby a fleeting glance. The only reason they did was because of the weak crop of colts.

[Mali]

Night, all!