Big Brown who???

[Tucumcari]

There is only one great horse these days! That is emphatically Curlin!!!

[Discovery]

yes!!!

[Roar]

The world get shock with the race of CURLIN, CASINO DRIVE, NEW APPROACH, BIG BROWN AND MR ZITO BELOVED .. 5555
...... ... ..... ....
Then you can say who is the best of the best in this NEW Millennium // BREEDER CUP CLASSIC OR DUBAI CUP 555 PLS WAIT./

[hdembski]

There is only one great horse these days! That is emphatically Curlin!!!

hey wait a minute, once Dutrow gets BB back on his juice, BB may break some world record! Maybe he can throw in some snake venom!

[horsenuts]

There is only one great horse these days! That is emphatically Curlin!!!

hey wait a minute, once Dutrow gets BB back on his juice, BB may break some world record! Maybe he can throw in some snake venom!

And Curlin's trainer has been suspended how many times in recent years for violations?


And by the way did anybody ever post bail for some of Curlin's owners or are they still sitting in jail where they belong?

[ratherrapid]

There is only one great horse these days! That is emphatically Curlin!!!

Big Brown who?/Curlin's worst nightmare.

[Des]

Do we know if Curlin was ever on any form of steriod??? If so would he be treated as many have treated Big Brown. I mean look who trains the horse, not much different from Dutrow except he is not so outspoken.

[horsenuts]

Do we know if Curlin was ever on any form of steriod??? If so would he be treated as many have treated Big Brown. I mean look who trains the horse, not much different from Dutrow except he is not so outspoken.

All things being equal until US racing bans steroids many horses racing today have some form of steroid used upon them and why I don't think anymore or less of Big Brown or Curlin. Their competitiors are allowed to use steroids as well and rest assured a lot of them do so it's not like either has an advantage over other horses they are running against.

Interesting fact is Dutrow won two races on Dubai World Cup day with Benny the Bull and Diamond Stripe. And Curlin won the DWC on the same card. No drugs are allowed in Dubai yet Dutrow and Assmussen both cleared the test barn while winning anyway. So anyone that thinks Dutrow needs steroids to win needs to rethink their position.

[Tucumcari]

I don't care if Curlin has ever been or is on hormones. Till someone says we can't you know we are going to. Hormonws didn't get BB beat or turn him into a winner. If we are on that boat then throw every Sadler, Gaines, Hollendorfer, Frankle out. They are all loaded up. And the trainers, not trainers, just jiucers depending on medication to do the training for them. Curlin is the real thing Equipoise/Winstrol be damned...

[ratherrapid]

This is why I was against allowing women the vote. If anabolic steriods fail to enhance performance why bother Is Julio Canini by chance on the list?

[dray33]

I look forward to the day when we no longer have to worry about such things. It is a shot in the face of all the promise, potential and hope this sport generates.

[Tucumcari]

I do second that, Dray. But when in Rome most will do like the Romans. He, Curlin, Seemed to do just fine in Dubai without, so who's to say he'd be any less horse at a different time

[horsenuts]

I look forward to the day when we no longer have to worry about such things. It is a shot in the face of all the promise, potential and hope this sport generates.

As sophisticated as modern medicine is I can't see steroids being completely eliminated. Remember, Dutrow won two races in Dubai back in March and Dubai is very intolerant and against steroids... and all medication for that matter. I'll venture 'low dosing' of steroids continues which will be undetectable and of course their is no test for HGH for either humans or equines. Their are other medications available as well that increase appetite and metabolism which allows for more frequent exercise which leads to increased muscle and strength etc. Still, racing can do MUCH better then currently allowed and I believe ALL race day meds should be eliminated.

[ratherrapid]

6/16/08 4:50 p.m. interview with Garrett Amway, bodybuilder, KCMo.

Q: Garrett, I have a steroid question for you.

A: fire away (Garrett was other than shy)

Q: do anabolic steroids have a performance enhancing effect.

A: definitely.

Q: what is the effect.

A: oh they increase your strength and recovery. they allow you to eat a little more.

Q. Let me be specific: do they increase strength.

A: yes.

Q. Do they increase endurance.

A: Definitely.

Q. Do they increase muscle size--

A: sometimes. depends on your training routine.

Q. Do steroids increase vascularization.

A: they say they do.

Q. Is that what might increase endurance.

A: Probably.

Q: would you put a percentage on the amount of increase.

A: (the moderator is shocked) 50%

Q: now, if you withdraw the steroid either 45 days or 30 days before competition would there still be an effect.

A: depends whether its an oil based (Equipoise) or water based (Winstrol) steroid. The oil based, definitely. The oil based stick around a little longer. The water based will leave your system in about two weeks.

(Mr. Amway obviously is overlooking something here)

Q: Garrett, even 30 days after withdrawal--would the increase in muscle size remain.

A. Probably--depends on your training routine.

Q. Would increase in strength and endurance remain for 30 days.

A: yes they would.

Q: you mean that increased vascularization and strength would stay for 30 days.

A: yes. after 4 to 6 months off you'd be back to normal.

Q: do you take anabolic steroids.

A: (takes the 5th)

Q: Thank you Garrett. Sorry to interrupt your routine.

[dray33]

I agree horsenuts. Sad thing is, I group the people willing to use steroids (because they are legal) with the same people that will look for/use any advantage possible, regardless of long term affect on horses. I suspect they are the first to push the limits in the name of "win at any cost" or "when in Rome" or "others do it"- isms. And it certainly protects them... because if you are an owner it goes without saying you need to use one of these types to win. It protects the vets too. Everyone wins, except the fools that try to walk the straight and narrow. Those idiots are throwing money to the wind. It's fun for a while, I suspect it grows old. And so, sadly, you are right. Those looking for chemical advantage will find it. But the downside is much more sinister: Dealing with the aftermath of our misdeeds. Let's say I have a horse that is a bleeder. She needs lasix to run. Or let's say I have a horse, as it turns out, that is a bad breather. Breeding and medications have backed us into a corner. I told the story of a trainer who's father, in the "good ol days" had 1-2 horses with breathing problems, and bleeders were far and few between. Those days are all but gone. Even if I wanted to find stallions that weren't bleeders, or bad breathers... how do I decipher the available data? Heck, I can't even tell if they thrown crooked foals any longer! The offspring are quickly whisked off to corrective surgery, as WEANLINGS! So knowing if they ran on steroids, or milkshakes, or any advantage that clouds true racing ability is all but impossible. And once the crops of said racers hit the race track, and are chemically enhanced, the process is repeated. For decades. Voila.

Average starts per runner in 1960: 11.31
Average starts per runner in 1970: 10.22
Average starts per runner in 1980: 9.21
Average starts per runner in 1990: 7.94
Average starts per runner in 2000: 7.10
Average starts per runner last year, 2007? 6.31

(citation: http://www.thejockeyclub.com/factbook.asp?section=10 )

According to the Jockey Club: "In contrast to the recent stability of average field size, the average annual starts per runner has declined 16.3% since 1997 to its lowest level on record in 2007."

When in Rome? Rome is burning.