does anyone have a clue what curlin's stud fee will be?

[bdw0617]

nm

[HR LLC]

I would bet north of 100k...no more than 150k...even in this economy...

[bdw0617]

honestly?

the reason I asked is because I have heard as low as 35k.. and as high as 200k. and you can make a justification for both.

that female family is pathetic. but my gosh he's a great horse and his sire is the leading sire 2 years straight.

[Brian]

$125,000-150,000 would be a decent price. Would not be surprised to see 200,000-225,000

[wallinga]

He should stand for more than that Big Brown character, that's all I know, particularly when he wins more races next year.

[Dave C]

Alot depends on which farm he ends up standing at, but I think the horse to measure him by is Tiznow, so I would say he'll start for about 40k. The shake down in the marketplace will also affect his fee and if they can't get the legal situation under control soon, they'll be forced to run him again next year.

[bdw0617]

i'll say more than 40k. not a hell of alot more, but more.

While the bottom half is important, sire lines dominate commercial markets. Cee's tizzy might be the most uncommerical sire in the united states. Smart Strike is the leading sire 2 years in a row.

isn't tiznow like tail female to Man o War or something like that?

[LB]

While the bottom half is important, sire lines dominate commercial markets. Cee's tizzy might be the most uncommerical sire in the united states. Smart Strike is the leading sire 2 years in a row.

Since that's the second time you've mentioned that, I'll point out that the fact that Smart Strike has led the General Sires List twice is entirely due to Curlin himself. Without Curlin's earnings, Smart Strike would currently be #15 on the list. He has 7 other stakes winners this year, compared to other top stallions like Giant's Causeway (21) and Lemon Drop Kid and Chester House (17 each). The reason Smart Strike is a top stallion is because he has Curlin, not the other way around.

[ASB]

Tiznow's sireline is tail-male to Man o' War. In Reality is the last major source of this blood and it's hanging on by a few branches of Relaunch and Valid Appeal.

Tiznow's 6th dam is Papila, who is the dam of the magnificent speed influence, Crimson Satan. Crimson Satan is the sire of Storm Cat's 2nd dam, Crimson Saint, who's had a lasting impact on the breed.

Tiznow has had great success with Storm Cat line mares, and I would attribute that, in large part, to the added Papila through Crimson Satan.

As far as Curlin's fee, I think it will be at the 100k mark or just below. The market is unsteady, his pedigree isn't the strongest, Smart Strike is not a known sire of sires (and who is also on a roll BECAUSE of Curlin), and Curlin doesn't have the brilliant speed of a horse like Ghostzapper.

[bdw0617]

While the bottom half is important, sire lines dominate commercial markets. Cee's tizzy might be the most uncommerical sire in the united states. Smart Strike is the leading sire 2 years in a row.

Since that's the second time you've mentioned that, I'll point out that the fact that Smart Strike has led the General Sires List twice is entirely due to Curlin himself. Without Curlin's earnings, Smart Strike would currently be #15 on the list. He has 7 other stakes winners this year, compared to other top stallions like Giant's Causeway (21) and Lemon Drop Kid and Chester House (17 each). The reason Smart Strike is a top stallion is because he has Curlin, not the other way around.

well as they say, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics

actually, that's not all true.

Fact: if you take curlin off of the map last year, smart strike is still the 2nd leading sire.

wheraras when elusive quality was number 1, if you would have taken smarty jones off, he would have been 54th.

actually LB, i can't believe you would even try to make that arguement. tha'ts a pretyt bad one.

let's go off this year. Coming up in the Breeders Cup races, he has 2 horses that will be odds on favs in their respective races in Curlin and Square Eddie. 3 if you count Fablous Strike who could very well be the best horse in the field and the best horse in the race.

lol, seriously... yep. smart strike is a one trick pony.

[ASB]

Exactly LB. Looks like I posted right after you and touched on the same thing. Smart Strike can get a very good horse, but he's where he's at numbers wise because of Curlin.

Again, SS is a good stallion, but he's overpriced at the moment.

[bdw0617]

are you guys serious? I mean seriously. re read my last post.

[bdw0617]

Not only that, my gosh guys. is it not what.. 4 posts down where the mares bred to list is posted and giant's causeway routinly pops about 200 plus a year out? smart strike avg's about 100 mares a year. Giant's Caueseway got 230.

even this year, he has about 30 more on the ground a full 50 more horses on the ground than smart strike, yet only 8 more runners.

this year gc bred 230, ss bred 112.

yeah.. he's not having the same year as he had last year. but you know what.. he doesn't have th same book or had the same book as GC got either. GC got Rags to Riches and actually bred ot urban sea.

curlin gets sheriff's Deputy and freaking fabulous find.

[madelyn]

If you took most stallions' top ten horses off they wouldn't be on the list at all

One of the reasons I don't like those "top 50" lists is that they just don't really ever tell the whole story. Of the number of mares bred to Joe the Stallion (excuse me, McCain and Palin, for adopting your terminology), how many were good mares and good matings? VS how many were accepted by the stud farm because the mare had (a) a working uterus and (b) a fully executed stud fee contract for the published price?? I truly believe that those last two criteria are the only ones that count for some stud farms.

[bdw0617]

bless roke for all the chaos he was.. but one thing he had on the money was that the only way to really look at a stallion is median earnings.